# I pit the derisive, condenscending, anti-conspiriacy ... \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653 "2012-06-29T02:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/861 "2012-07-23T18:08:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What can you tell me about The Seattle Group? Nothing. I couldn’t find anything on Wikipedia. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/862 "2012-07-23T18:21:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > \*\*DrFidelius \*\*argued that governments are in fact large group of people working together (which is something all of us already knew). **DrFidelius** also argued that (1) the 192 heads of government could have a super-secret meeting and that (2) any actions proposed or agreed upon would need to be ratified by their congresses, parliaments, politburos, regional governors, etc. for it to take effect. I agree with (1). I disagree with (2). ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/863 "2012-07-23T18:28:29Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > **DrFidelius** also argued that (1) the 192 heads of government could have a super-secret meeting and that (2) any actions proposed or agreed upon would need to be ratified by their congresses, parliaments, politburos, regional governors, etc. for it to take effect. > > I agree with (1). I disagree with (2). You’ve repeated this roughly 20 times in this thread. And roughly 20 times, dopers have responded with “that, in NO WAY, is evidence for what you think you are arguing”. So why the fuck do you keep repeating it over and over? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/864 "2012-07-23T18:33:13Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > So why the fuck do you keep repeating it over and over? Because I’m _now_ stating what I agree with and what I disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/865 "2012-07-23T18:36:40Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Because I’m _now_ stating what I agree with and what I disagree with. Could you maybe keep track of what you are “just now” stating? Because you’ve posted about that Dr. Fidelius quote 20 times now. Repeating the same shit over and over is one of the primary reasons we believe you are mentally ill. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/866 "2012-07-23T18:39:21Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > **DrFidelius** also argued that … (2) any actions proposed or agreed upon would need to be ratified by their congresses, parliaments, politburos, regional governors, etc. for it to take effect. > > I disagree with (2). Are you saying that the heads of governments do not have to obey the law? I’m not talking about dictators who have absolute power, I’m talking about modern countries with courts and legislatures and stuff. For example, when OJ was acquitted of murder charges, do you think President Bush could have had him imprisoned or executed in contravention of the law, and he chose not to? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/867 "2012-07-23T18:39:24Z")
How does it even make sense, anyway? So, the President of the US decides that, without congressional approval, oversight, or comment, he’s going to open up a military base in North Umbria and a couple embassies in East Bumfuckia and South Who Gives a Damn. How exactly is this accomplished without any of a myriad of government agencies necessarily getting involved? Congress is just going to pay for all of it no questions asked, Constitution be damned? Woodrow Wilson couldn’t even get the League of Nations past the Senate and we’re supposed to swallow this tripe? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/868 "2012-07-23T18:45:20Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Because you’ve posted about that Dr. Fidelius quote 20 times now. For emphasis. I’m just hoping that **DrFidelius** will give me the same consideration that **iiandyiii** gave me in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15279260&postcount=656) post. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/869 "2012-07-23T18:49:56Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > For emphasis. > > I’m just hoping that **DrFidelius** will give me the same consideration… What you think is “emphasis” appears to us as “bat shit crazy”. Seriously. You have a dozen regular posters in here asking you legitimate follow-up questions that you are blatantly ignoring, only to focus on one or two posts (not even post_ers_ - posts) that you feel you can agree with - in part. This is not productive. This is not rational. This is, to many observers in this thread, indication that you should discuss your ideas with a psychiatrist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/870 "2012-07-23T18:55:39Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Nothing. I couldn’t find anything on Wikipedia. _Wiki_ is your soul source of information about The Illuminati? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/871 "2012-07-23T18:58:52Z")
Is Wikipedia the Illuminati? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/872 "2012-07-23T19:00:43Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > You have a dozen regular posters in here asking you legitimate follow-up questions that you are blatantly ignoring Not anymore. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Are you saying that the heads of governments do not have to obey the law? Yes. [Anarchy (international relations)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_(international_relations)) > [@](#): > > There is thus no hierarchically superior, coercive power that can resolve disputes, **enforce law** , or order the system like there is in domestic politics. Emphasis mine. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Wiki_ is your soul source of information about The Illuminati? No. The Straight Dope Message Board and _The New York Times_ are my other sources. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Is Wikipedia the Illuminati? No. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/873 "2012-07-23T19:03:40Z")
Kozmik, finding one or two posters who once said that perhaps one of your thousand insane statements had a grain of truth to it is not going to overcome the overwhelming evidence that you need professional help. Yes, even if someone acknowledges that there are 192 nations in the world, you still need help. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/874 "2012-07-23T19:11:57Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > (In reference to my question on whether world leaders can disregard the law on a whim:) > Yes. > > [Anarchy (international relations)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_(international_relations)) God fuckin’ dammit, not only did you not understand the question, but do you even read what you cite? The first line of the page states: "there is no universal sovereign or worldwide government. There is thus no hierarchically superior coercive power that can resolve disputes, enforce law, or order the system like there is in domestic politics. " _Then how the hell is there someone in charge of the Illuminani???_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/875 "2012-07-23T19:12:51Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > And anti-conspiracy propagandists would not be so derisive and condescending if they didn’t have to always be right. They are right, and you really do need to talk to someone. Take the hint: the longer you explain your views, the more people tell you those views reflect a mental illness. You’ve convinced nobody that the Illuminati might be real, but you’ve convinced more than a few people that you’re having delusions. ---
**Author:** ![kob09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@kob09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kob09)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/876 "2012-07-23T19:17:58Z")
thanks for the giggles the read of this thread caused me 😃 I like people like Kozmic, they make me feel very reasonable ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/877 "2012-07-23T19:25:32Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I’m just hoping that **DrFidelius** will give me the same consideration that **iiandyiii** gave me in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15279260&postcount=656) post. People aren’t giving you consideration, so much as they are trying to understand what appears on the surface to be your nonsensical world view. No one is seriously considering that the Illuminati might exist - it’s simply preposterous. There is no conceivable way that a super secret society with near omnipotent control could exist; it runs afoul of all we know about international relations, human nature, and economics. It’s a non-starter. But you, on the other hand, are fascinating. People are trying to figure out what makes you tick because your beliefs are so out of range of normal beliefs that it’s interesting. It’s why people study abnormal psychology, because the extremes give insight to variations in the mainstream. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/878 "2012-07-23T19:31:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > God fuckin’ dammit, not only did you not understand the question, but do you even read what you cite? The first line of the page states: "there is no universal sovereign or worldwide government. There is thus no hierarchically superior coercive power that can resolve disputes, enforce law, or order the system like there is in domestic politics. " And you altered my post. :mad: > [@Ravenman](#): > > _Then how the hell is there someone in charge of the Illuminani???_ There _could_ be a “universal sovereign or worldwide government”. If so, _someone_ will be in charge of that. > [@Telemark](#): > > There is no conceivable way that a super secret society with near omnipotent control could exist; it runs afoul of all we know about international relations, human nature, and economics. What is known about international relations? Also from the cite: “The Realist theory of international relations asserts that states are the main power players in international politics.” My theory of international relations asserts that states are perceived to be the main power players in international relations. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/879 "2012-07-23T19:34:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They are right Why? Because you say so. _Now_ who’s being smug? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/880 "2012-07-23T19:38:41Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Why? Because when you’re told “saying there are 192 countries is not a valid argument for the existence of the Illuminati” you respond with a statement that there are 192 countries. That is not a logical argument that sane people put forward. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=45)