# I pit the derisive, condenscending, anti-conspiriacy ... \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653 "2012-06-29T02:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/921 "2012-07-24T18:14:22Z")
I’m still being ignored, I see. I refer you yet again to post #886, Kosmik. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/922 "2012-07-24T18:39:44Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Ok. Let’s agree to limit the discussion to (1) facts and (2) speculation based on facts. Wow, I’ve never thought about adding a sig line before, but this is really tempting. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/923 "2012-07-24T18:55:58Z")
I still like ‘Lies, damn lies and statistics’ myself. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/924 "2012-07-24T19:45:41Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > There can be a closed G-192 summit. \*\* potus69 is online.\*\* potus69: what up Pootie-poot: Привет Prime Minister David Cameron: greetings, Mr. President. f\_hollande: kestufou???@ EDR potus69: soooooooooo bored ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/925 "2012-07-24T21:37:35Z")
I think we can get to 1,000 posts without Koz answering the simple question of why. We can do it? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/926 "2012-07-24T21:38:02Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I think we can get to 1,000 posts without Koz answering the simple question of why. We can do it? If you count the other thread, it’s way over 1,000. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/927 "2012-07-25T00:31:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If you count the other thread, it’s way over 1,000. yippee ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/928 "2012-07-25T02:10:15Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I’m not talking about any of the leaders taking actions “at home”. Then you are saying absolutely nothing. The point of national leaders is to lead their nations. If they all get together, (physically or virtually), and agree to destabilize the economy or put the world on the Peanut Butter Standard or make pink the official color to announce baby boy births, nothing happens if they take no actions at home. Nothing. If they take no actions at home, then their effect on the world is identical to sitting on their butts watching Gilligan’s Island re-runs. > [@Kozmik](#): > > Ok. Let’s agree to limit the discussion to (1) facts and (2) speculation based on facts. > > Fact: There is the G-8 summit. > Fact: There is the G-20 summit. > Speculation: There could be the G-192 summit. Again, so what? Even granting your new position in which you have turned the goalposts 90° and placed them on the 50 yard line, such speculation is meaningless. It certainly does nothing to propose that an organization that has been extinct for 127+ years is running the world and it gives no one any reason to even consider that it is not extinct. Like every other “logical” claim you have made, your statement is utterly devoid of logic. You simply seem to swallow the tripe that Jones and his cronies spew and decide to indulge yourself with paranoid fantasies that are not supported by any genuine facts. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/929 "2012-07-25T02:45:24Z")
Just ran across [this.](http://abstrusegoose.com/456) ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/930 "2012-07-25T03:15:27Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The same thing that happened to Dominique Strauss-Kahn. So, what, then? Do the illuminati have a cadre of assassins and honey-trappers? Or do they just call up the newspapers and say ‘start telling stories about this?’ ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/931 "2012-07-25T06:07:24Z")
> [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > So, what, then? Do the illuminati have a cadre of assassins and honey-trappers? Or do they just call up the newspapers and say ‘start telling stories about this?’ They don’t call up the newspapers; they have [him](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Strauss-Kahn#Conspiracy_speculation) call up the newspapers. > [@](#): > > In an interview with Libération on April 28, 2011, Strauss-Kahn stated he was “worried his political opponent, Nicolas Sarkozy, would try to frame him with a fake rape”. > [@tomndebb](#): > > If they all get together, (physically or virtually), and agree to destabilize the economy or put the world on the Peanut Butter Standard or make pink the official color to announce baby boy births, nothing happens if they take no actions at home. I don’t agree with your conclusion. > [@Smeghead](#): > > do you honestly not see how these two statements are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT?? There is a VAST gulf between “a super secret society with near omnipotent control” and “heads of government having a meeting”. Besides, you keep telling us that the 192 governmental heads are NOT the real people in charge, so by your own “logic”, the two concepts have nothing at all to do with each other. Of course, there is a difference between “the 192 heads of state” and “the Illuminati”. I keep telling you that 192 governemental heads APPEAR to be the real people in charge. I stated that the realist theory of international relations asserts that states are the main power players in international politics. I stated that my theory of international relations asserts that states APPEAR TO BE the main power players in international politics. > [@Telemark](#): > > They don’t all speak a common language. They wouldn’t agree on rules of order. They would have no security. If it were possible to get the 192 heads of state in a single room together they would need 100’s of translators, security, aides, advisers, and technicians in the room with them. There’s no possible way they could keep everything discussed secret, and there would be no common motivation for all 192 heads of state to do so. The 192 heads of state would be able to keep everything discussed secret if there were only 192 people in a single room. Don’t even try to deny the consequent because **tomndebb** already expressed the antecedent. And if you can’t understand simple logic, **Telemark** - let me draw you a picture: a room and 192 people in it. From your post, you seem to understand the concept of “a single room”. > [@Telemark](#): > > Anything the president of the US wanted to do as a result of the meeting he’d still have to run through congress. Please. There’s executive orders, the state secrets privilege, executive privilege, and many other things that the President can do outside of Congress. > [@Telemark](#): > > How could the president of the US survive politically if he said “I’m going to this world conference on the taxpayer dime, for undefined purposes, and I’m not going to tell you what we’re talking about”? He’d lose all political capital and his own party would disown him. The President addresses the nation from the Oval Office and says “I’m attending the first ever G-192 summit in response to the global financial crisis affecting the European Union and here at home. I will work with the other world leaders to find a solution to our economic problems.” The President’s approval rating goes up. ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/932 "2012-07-25T06:35:36Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > They don’t call up the newspapers; they have [him](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Strauss-Kahn#Conspiracy_speculation) call up the newspapers. So, then, was Sarkozy acting on the orders of the Illuminati? Or was he, as seems more likely, acting on his own initiative to smear his own personal enemy? (Not that I’m saying he did, either way.) I’m still not seeing how this works. You’re gonna have to walk me through this. Imagine a Mr. A, who is a full, card-carrying member of the Illuminati, with knowledge that he represents this agency. Mr. B, C, D, and onward across the list are likewise members. How does the decision ‘smear this guy’ get made, and how is it carried out? Who do they call, and how do they coerce him to do their bidding? Who does _he_ call, and so on, until we reach normal channels of human activity, governed by public law? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/933 "2012-07-25T09:01:04Z")
> [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > So, then, was Sarkozy acting on the orders of the Illuminati? Or was he, as seems more likely, acting on his own initiative to smear his own personal enemy? (Not that I’m saying he did, either way.) > > I’m still not seeing how this works. You’re gonna have to walk me through this. Imagine a Mr. A, who is a full, card-carrying member of the Illuminati, with knowledge that he represents this agency. Mr. B, C, D, and onward across the list are likewise members. > > How does the decision ‘smear this guy’ get made, and how is it carried out? Who do they call, and how do they coerce him to do their bidding? Who does _he_ call, and so on, until we reach normal channels of human activity, governed by public law? Sarkozy, of course, the President of France, is centered in Paris. Strauss-Khan, also French, was Managing Director of the IMF, which is based in Washington D.C. and the alleged crime occured in New York City. So there would be, at minimum, Mr. A in Paris and Mr. B in Washington D.C. and Mr. C. in New York City. The heads of government act on orders of the Illuminati. If it wasn’t Strauss-Khan, it would have been Sarkozy. So they would have coerced Sarkozy to assist in, as you put it, the more likely scenario. In New York City, the Illuminati would use their vast connections to influence the crime investigation and the media reporting. Strauss-Khan called the Sofitel New York Hotel and inquired about his missing cell phone. Minutes before take-off of the Paris-bound flight, Strauss-Khan was arrested. There were fabrications by Nafissatou Diallo, the hotel maid, including a story about being gang raped by soldiers in Guinea. Then there was the phone call by Diallo to her boyfriend where she said in her native Fula, “Don’t worry, this guy has a lot of money. I know what I’m doing.” The charges were dismissed. Subsequently, Strauss-Khan was released on his own recognizance. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Are you saying that the heads of governments do not have to obey the law? Separately, they do have to obey “the law”. Collectively - all 192 heads of government in a single room - they do not have to obey “the law”. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/934 "2012-07-25T09:16:45Z")
I was tossing around the idea of a drinking game where you had to take a shot every time the number 192 appeared in this thread, but I don’t think I could live with any deaths by alcohol poisoning on my conscious. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/935 "2012-07-25T10:14:59Z")
So national leaders are just catspaws for those who actually run the world? Then why have the bread and circuses of them all getting together at any time, when the “True Rulers” could just impose their fiscal will on the populace without all that mummery? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/936 "2012-07-25T10:19:20Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I don’t agree with your conclusion. Yeah, but you are wrong, so who cares? This was the point at which you could point out just what was wrong with my conclusion. You failed to do so, (as you have failed at everything else in all these threads). I pointed out exactly what was wrong with your silly belief. If 192 people get together, “agree” on something, and do nothing, then the fact that they do nothing means that nothing happens. There is no magic that happens because they all nodded their heads about something if they cannot actually cause something to happen. And the fact that their actions have to be approved by legislatures, cabinets, party directorates, or other agencies means that they cannot do anything on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/937 "2012-07-25T11:07:11Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The 192 heads of state would be able to keep everything discussed secret if there were only 192 people in a single room. Don’t even try to deny the consequent because **tomndebb** already expressed the antecedent. And if you can’t understand simple logic, **Telemark** - let me draw you a picture: a room and 192 people in it. From your post, you seem to understand the concept of “a single room”. Dude, they don’t all speak the same language! They can’t talk to each other! The secret service wouldn’t all the US President to go there without them. No group of 192 people can conduct business without someone to moderate, rules, and controls. You couldn’t get the Presidents of Israel and Iran in the same room. It’s not possible to conduct a meeting as you are describing - end of story. > [@](#): > > Please. There’s executive orders, the state secrets privilege, executive privilege, and many other things that the President can do outside of Congress. There are very limited ranges of things the President of the US can do without congressional approval. Other countries have less powerful presidents and are run by the legislature. Again, why would the POTUS do anything suggested by the G-192? We rarely do anything suggested by the UN. > [@](#): > > The President addresses the nation from the Oval Office and says “I’m attending the first ever G-192 summit in response to the global financial crisis affecting the European Union and here at home. I will work with the other world leaders to find a solution to our economic problems.” The President’s approval rating goes up. We’re already working with the governments that matter. The secrecy of your proposed G-192 would sink the whole process like a stone. That, and the fact that it couldn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/938 "2012-07-25T11:25:16Z")
Also, imagining that at some time in the unspecified future all world leaders will attend a locked-door meeting and pretend to discuss International Financial Reform (while actually doing something else) does not in any way, shape or form support the idea that the Illuminati have been running the world for the past umpteen years. **Koz** , even you must admit that this super-world-leader-meeting has never happened. Therefore, your Illuminati must have ways of informing and compelling which do not require world leaders to all be in the same room at one time. So any talk of this potential meeting is smoke and mirrors, designed to distract from how the Illuminati have been actually controlling the world. Consider this - even if \*they \*operate by personal interactions with World Leaders, what do \*they \*do with a change in leadership? I find it very difficult to accept that even in a peaceful democratic transfer of power, such as the United States has every four to eight years, that every single incoming President has agreed to continue with a personal arrangement inherited from his predecessor. Or do the Illuminati ensure that only their chosen candidates are elected? In that case, why wouldn’t \*they \*have amended the Constitution to do away with popular vote elections completely? A hyper-national group which controls the leaders of a countryshould have been able to alter a country’s constitution to their own benefit years ago. If all candidates are Illuminati puppets even before they are elected, when do they become beholden to the Illuminati? Did not a single person who lost a primary ever think to accuse his opponents of being in the pocket of the Illuminati? (If _they_ recruit all potential candidates before they are elected, then at least one woud have names dates and photos of their attempted induction.) So **Koz** , please stop with the G-192 nonsense. The flights of fancy you pull from your undisciplined imagination are not helping your arguments in the least. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/939 "2012-07-25T11:34:34Z")
\*\*Kozmik [/quote] - theoretically, could there be a G-190 meeting? If so, which two countries would be left out? If there were a G-188, would those same two countries be left out, plus two more; or would it be a completely different four countries left out? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/940 "2012-07-25T11:52:07Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I stated that the realist theory of international relations asserts that states are the main power players in international politics. I stated that my theory of international relations asserts that states APPEAR TO BE the main power players in international politics. This is the crux of the problem. You have no idea what the word theory means. You mention one well thought out world view which has its roots in the writings of the greatest minds in history. You contrast that with your “theory” which consists of wild ass conjecture. WE KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE. You keep repeating it. Its not that complicated or subversive. We get it. What you keep being asked is why you believe it. What made you take the leap to believe the Illuminati exists. If you truly have a theory and not just delusions you must have some proof. And no, linking to someone elses post in this thread is not proof. Conjecture about a small group of people secretly plotting towards a specific goal is not proof. I mean proof that there is a centuries old worldwide conspiracy which controls ever single country and all aspects of politics and the economy. Any proof will do. Saying there are 192 countries ergo the Illuminati exists is just crazy talk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=48)