# I pit the derisive, condenscending, anti-conspiriacy ... \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653 "2012-06-29T02:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/941 "2012-07-25T12:00:09Z")
It’s like explaining quantum mechanics to a hamster. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/942 "2012-07-25T12:19:20Z")
Don’t insult my hamster like that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/943 "2012-07-25T12:55:03Z")
Even hamsters know that wheel isn’t going anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/944 "2012-07-25T12:56:37Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > It’s like explaining quantum mechanics to a hamster. And you’re only allowed to use interpretive dance. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/945 "2012-07-25T12:57:47Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > And you’re only allowed to use interpretive dance. Finally all my years in tights will pay off. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/946 "2012-07-25T13:00:54Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Separately, they do have to obey “the law”. Collectively - all 192 heads of government in a single room - they do not have to obey “the law”. Even if you could get 192 heads of government in a room (which you couldn’t), and have them agree to anything (which they wouldn’t), without anyone else knowing (which is impossible); once they stepped out of the room the do have to obey “the law” of their own countries. So this hypothetical, impossible, and ineffective proposal wouldn’t do what you said it could do. None of which has anything to do with the Illuminati (which doesn’t exist). ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/947 "2012-07-25T15:25:55Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Even if you could get 192 heads of government in a room (which you couldn’t), and have them agree to anything (which they wouldn’t), without anyone else knowing (which is impossible); once they stepped out of the room the do have to obey “the law” of their own countries. So this hypothetical, impossible, and ineffective proposal wouldn’t do what you said it could do. > > None of which has anything to do with the Illuminati (which doesn’t exist). Also, Fluffy, “spin” doesn’t actually describe any physical movement of the particle itself. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/948 "2012-07-25T15:30:18Z")
Of course, **Koz** , I think most of us will still reiterate the advice that you take this thread and go speak to a qualified medical professional. Surely on some level you realize that “There are 192 governments, so they’re ruled by shapeshifting lizard people” has _exactly_ as much proof and is _exactly_ as reasonable as “There are 192 governments, so they’re ruled by a centuries old secret society that never the less controls global politics in contravention to all we know about how governments actually work, and which has managed to remain completely undetected, unproven and what’s more, unidentified despite being the single most important organization in the Information Age.” ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/949 "2012-07-25T15:57:16Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The secret service wouldn’t all the US President to go there without them. :rolleyes: The Secret Service is not the President’s babysitter! > [@Telemark](#): > > Even if you could get 192 heads of government in a room (which you couldn’t), and have them agree to anything (which they wouldn’t), without anyone else knowing (which is impossible); once they stepped out of the room the do have to obey “the law” of their own countries. So this hypothetical, impossible, and ineffective proposal wouldn’t do what you said it could do. > > None of which has anything to do with the Illuminati (which doesn’t exist). You could get 192 heads of government in a room. \*\*tomndebb \*\*agreed on that much. You could get them to agree to something. \*\*tomndebb \*\*agreed on this point; however, \*\*tomndebb \*\*explained that they probably would do nothing. (It’s not the 192 heads of government that would act.). You could get them to keep it a secret if there is the Illuminati. Of course, once they step out of the room, they have to obey laws. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > So national leaders are just catspaws for those who actually run the world? Then why have the bread and circuses of them all getting together at any time, when the “True Rulers” could just impose their fiscal will on the populace without all that mummery? The populace would revolt. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > Also, imagining that at some time in the unspecified future all world leaders will attend a locked-door meeting and pretend to discuss International Financial Reform (while actually doing something else) does not in any way, shape or form support the idea that the Illuminati have been running the world for the past umpteen years. I disagree. Ask yourself this: Who could walk into that room (from an underground tunnel) and preside over that meeting? Ban Ki-moon? Queen Elizabeth II? Who could speak to the 192 heads of government? Other than the Illuminati and maybe Ban Ki-moon or Queen Elizabeth II, there is no power, no authority, that could walk into that room and enforce order, set things straight, lay down the law or anything like that. No chief of police could walk into that room and break up any “illegal activity”. It is the ultimate example of [anarchy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_in_international_relations) in international relations. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > **Koz** , even you must admit that this super-world-leader-meeting has never happened. Therefore, your Illuminati must have ways of informing and compelling which do not require world leaders to all be in the same room at one time. The G-192 summit has not happened. I do not agree with your conclusion. The G-20 summit was created for [two reasons](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-20_major_economies#Summits): (1) as a response to the financial crisis of 2007–2010 and (2) to a growing recognition that key emerging countries were not adequately included in the core of global economic discussion and governance. Ask yourself this: What would the G-192 summit be created in response to? > [@DrFidelius](#): > > Consider this - even if \*they \*operate by personal interactions with World Leaders, what do \*they \*do with a change in leadership? I find it very difficult to accept that even in a peaceful democratic transfer of power, such as the United States has every four to eight years, that every single incoming President has agreed to continue with a personal arrangement inherited from his predecessor. The President realizes what would happen if they didn’t. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > Did not a single person who lost a primary ever think to accuse his opponents of being in the pocket of the Illuminati? Ron Paul came close but he realized what would happen to him if he did. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > So **Koz** , please stop with the G-192 nonsense. The G-192 summit is not nonsense. It could happen in the near future. > [@tomndebb](#): > > If 192 people get together, “agree” on something, and do nothing, then the fact that they do nothing means that nothing happens. There is no magic that happens because they all nodded their heads about something if they cannot actually cause something to happen. And the fact that their actions have to be approved by legislatures, cabinets, party directorates, or other agencies means that they cannot do anything on their own. I pointed out that the President has executive orders, executive privilege, and other things that circumvent Congress. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/950 "2012-07-25T16:09:05Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > :rolleyes: > . . . > > I disagree. Ask yourself this: Who could walk into that room (from an underground tunnel) and preside over that meeting? Ban Ki-moon? Queen Elizabeth II? Who could speak to the 192 heads of government? Other than the Illuminati and maybe Ban Ki-moon or Queen Elizabeth II, there is no power, no authority, that could walk into that room and enforce order, set things straight, lay down the law or anything like that. No chief of police could walk into that room and break up any “illegal activity”. It is the ultimate example of [anarchy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_in_international_relations) in international relations. > > . . . > > The G-192 summit is not nonsense. It could happen in the near future. > > . . . No. Listen to yourself. You are proposing a fictional meeting of world leaders. which has never happened. Then you extrapolate that your fictional meeting needs a leader/ enforcer. This does not support your beliefs in the least, it is merely your agreeing with yourself, and if completely divorced from reality. Anything can be proven if one starts from a false position. This G-192 has never happened, and so does not require an arbitrator. It is impossible for it to happen in the way you imagine, and so a hypothetical G-192 meeting also does not need a super-arbitrator. It could not have the results you seem to believe it would have, and so does not need someone to steer the meeting or enforce order on the assembled world leaders. A fictional meeting can have any person as chairman coming in through the imaginary tunnel. This fiction does nto constrain or define reality in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/951 "2012-07-25T16:20:30Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > so a hypothetical G-192 meeting also does not need a super-arbitrator. Ok. So you are categorically stating that there is aboslutely no authority that could be above the 192 people in that room? That no one could enter that room and _speak to_ the 192 people in that room? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/952 "2012-07-25T16:37:54Z")
Bono, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/953 "2012-07-25T16:47:09Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Ok. So you are categorically stating that there is aboslutely no authority that could be above the 192 people in that room? That no one could enter that room and _speak to_ the 192 people in that room? **THERE IS NO ROOM.** I am categorically stating that in your fictional example, any person, living, dead, or imaginary can have the authority to speak to your non-existent collection of persons. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/954 "2012-07-25T17:06:59Z")
Speaking to a room does not equate to a person or conspiracy holding power over the people in the room. On top of everything else, you’ve got some very weird view about human interactions. Seek help. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/955 "2012-07-25T17:26:33Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Bono, maybe. I was thinking Dave Thomas from Wendys. But he’s dead. Or so they want you to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/956 "2012-07-25T17:37:37Z")
**Koz,** please, just do a little experiment for us. Next time you see your shrink for OCD, mention your Illuminati ideas. See what he (or she) thinks. If he says, “Yes, that makes sense, the Illuminati could very well be ruling the world”, you’re right and you can come back and tell us you told us so. If your shrink’s reaction is pretty much the same as ours, e.g. that you’re a complete whackaloon, then you are wrong and should be on medication. If you’re so sure that your arguments make sense and there is an Illuminati, you shouldn’t be afraid try this. Go on. Ask your doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/957 "2012-07-25T17:44:58Z")
As a purely factual matter, if there were a G-192 meeting, there would simply be someone appointed (most likely the head of government of the host country) to serve as host/chairman – recognizing speakers, keeping the agenda, etc. – while not having any power to dictate things to people. Sort of like how the Speaker in the House of Commons can keep order, but doesn’t have substantive authority over the MPs. Just because someone can keep order and tell people to sit down and be quiet while others are talking, doesn’t mean that they can then use that ministerial power to create a New World Order or reorganize the world’s baking system. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/958 "2012-07-25T18:05:05Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Ok. So you are categorically stating that there is aboslutely no authority that could be above the 192 people in that room? That no one could enter that room and _speak to_ the 192 people in that room? Correct, there is no one who could do that. _Sigh_ We’re now reduced to arguing about imaginary people with magical powers holding sway over an impossible gathering of world leaders for hypothetical purposes. I feel like I’m trapped in a bad game of Mad Libs. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/959 "2012-07-25T18:16:04Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > If you’re so sure that your arguments make sense and there is an Illuminati, you shouldn’t be afraid try this. Go on. Ask your doctor. That makes sense logically. I’m not sure he is seeing a therapist, though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/960 "2012-07-25T18:20:09Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Ok. So you are categorically stating that there is aboslutely no authority that could be above the 192 people in that room? That no one could enter that room and _speak to_ the 192 people in that room? 1. Yes. 2. No. Anyone with an I.Q. over 85 would know that those two answers are not incompatible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=49)