# I pit the derisive, condenscending, anti-conspiriacy ... \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653 "2012-06-29T02:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1021 "2012-07-26T19:22:05Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > [ol] > [li]Steal underpants[/li][li]???[/li][li]Profit![/li][/ol] Holy shit, **Diamonds02** is the Illuminati! ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1022 "2012-07-26T19:23:04Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > If I may be allowed a brief but heartfelt interjection, > > What the everloving FUCK does any of this bullshit about an imaginary meeting of an imaginary organization of the world’s leaders have to do with the hypothesized existence of the Illuminati, and why have we spent the last five pages arguing about it???! > > Thank you. Carry on. As much as I would hate to seem to be putting my words in someone else’s mouth, our friend \*\*Kozmik \*\*appears to have started from a “what would convince you all of the Illuminati” brain-storming session, through a metaphorical description of one person being in an absolutely more powerful position than any other person, to arrive at the requirement of an actual, physical meeting of world leaders to illustrate this concept. He seems to have invested quite a bit in this daydream, which would be (I am not afraid to admit) an amazing demonstration of the existence of the Illuminati, if only the world, people and our secret masters worked in a way that coincided with \*\*Kozmik’s \*\*rather naive fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1023 "2012-07-26T19:31:53Z")
This has been bothering me for several pages: what, really, is the difference between the fictional G-19 and the ministerial meetings the United Nations each year that are widely attended by heads of government? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1024 "2012-07-26T19:36:27Z")
The G-192 is made of pure liquid evil. The UN, on the other hand, actually exists. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1025 "2012-07-26T19:54:05Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This has been bothering me for several pages: what, really, is the difference between the fictional G-19 and the ministerial meetings the United Nations each year that are widely attended by heads of government? Because the UN is not attended by every head of every government, and lots of other people are there. **Kozmik** is proposing a meeting where the only people in attendance are the 192 heads of government and one Illuminatus. How they all communicate without translators has not been explained, but then again, neither has the fact that the UN often does little or nothing about major issues because the countries in it have such widely diverging interests that it can be impossible to get many of them to agree to anything- and when they agree on something, as noted, they often do nothing. **Kozmik** has been asked about this and issues related to it and keeps dodging the question so he can post more deluded bullshit about it’s possible because he’s getting secret messages in his Thomas’ English Muffins that say it’s sooth. Even after 20 pages, **Kozmik** , I get the sense you’re holding back on what you really think. I assume that’s because you understand everybody else would think it’s crazy. That’s why you’re arguing about plausibility rather than just stating your opinions on how the the Illuminati caused the world wars and the Civil War, right? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1026 "2012-07-26T22:22:10Z")
**Kozmik,** we’ve met at a Michigan Dopefest a few years ago. You were polite, intelligent and sociable from alls I remember. Despite the jokes I made in this thread, even I have to admit these beliefs are somehow tied into your OCD. It couldn’t hurt for a psychiatric physician to take a deeper look. Yes, there are things that are possible that we probably are unaware of as a general population, such as malevolent individuals and/or groups and governments conspiring against another group or government. We call them possible, because there’s nothing in the laws of physics or in the actual way the astoundingly complicated structure of human affairs on a global level can’t contradict. Then, there’s “probability,” and “implausibility.” These can quantify the likelihood of “possibility”. Then there’s “impossiblity,” the direct counter to “possibility.” _Probability_ would give you a ballpark, based on the known variables you factor in, of the likelihood something can occur (possibility). _Implausibility_ is a conclusion you draw from factoring your known variables and realizing there is either a contradiction that would outright up-end everything we understand about the deeply interconnected way a system works, or fail the rational or ostensible reality of real-world circumstances to the point it doesn’t go that extra step into total _impossibility_. Now, I think most of the average, rational thinkers would rate the “possibility” of what you describe under “implausible.” That is, it’s so incredibly unlikely, it may as well be impossible, but since there’s nothing breaking the rules of global human affairs or the established laws of physics, they can’t honestly say with 100% certainty that it is in fact, “impossible.” Then, of course, there would be some on the two ends of the bell curve that lay on the “probable” and “impossible” spectrum that might say, “Okay, I can see how this _might_ be the case.” or “Totally and completely impossible, it just can’t happen, period.” All that said, the rational you’ve tried to display, lies somewhere in-between “implausible” and [“not-even-wrong.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) For all intents and purposes, it may as well be impossible, assuming there’s even a clear rationale or a point in there somewhere. So, if you’re now trying to get some posters here to admit it’s at least “possible,” that doesn’t mean all that much, and doesn’t help your position. Just… Try to look at this whole thread objectively, if you can. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1027 "2012-07-26T22:39:38Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I was tossing around the idea of a drinking game where you had to take a shot every time the number 192 appeared in this thread, but I don’t think I could live with any deaths by alcohol poisoning on my conscious. Actually, if you limited the game to people who are reading the thread at least twice a day, they’d certainly stay pretty drunk, but probably wouldn’t get as far as alcohol poisoning. It’s not a fast moving thread. It’s only people like me, who just read to catch up on the crazy, once every couple of days, who’re risking death by ‘192’ if we play. But, retroactively in your honor, I’ve only read this thread, and will continue to only read this thread, while I’ve been drinking. Cheers! ‘192’… Drink, dude! [del]Twice[/del] Three times for this post! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1028 "2012-07-26T22:51:14Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I know you can imagine what the G-192 summit would be created in response to. Justin Beiber? As in, some way to neutralize him? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1029 "2012-07-26T23:05:40Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > It’s like explaining quantum mechanics to a hamster. > [@Loach](#): > > Don’t insult my hamster like that. My cat can kill both your hamsters. And will. _She_’s not _declawed_! She has a [Subprime Morgidj](http://cheezburger.com/3678631680)! She wants your pity. She wants to eat your rodents. She _doesn’t_ want your ‘explanations’. Unless they justify her eating the hamsters… She’s not asking for much, here. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1030 "2012-07-26T23:10:06Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > My cat can kill both your hamsters. And will. _She_’s not _declawed_! > > She has a [Subprime Morgidj](http://cheezburger.com/3678631680)! She wants your pity. She wants to eat your rodents. She _doesn’t_ want your ‘explanations’. Unless they justify her eating the hamsters… She’s not asking for much, here. Schrodinger’s cat can both kill and not kill the hamsters. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1031 "2012-07-26T23:17:22Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Schrodinger’s cat can both kill and not kill the hamsters. Yet… The world will never know which, unless someone opens the box. If the Illuminati opens it first, the knowledge will remain hidden from the rest of humanity! Quick! Someone call Dan Brown! Ahh, doesn’t matter. Even if Erwin Schrödinger had a cat, it’s long dead by now… quantum-triggered poison or not. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1032 "2012-07-27T01:17:21Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The Director of the Secret Service has more power than the President of the United States. :dubious: OK. You are officially not nuts–just incredibly stupid. The president has more power and authority than anyone in the Secret Service. However, the president is not, (as you firmly seem to believe), a potentate of unlimited power and authority. He is bound by rules and laws, just as anyone else is. In regard to one aspect of his life, the Secret Service has authority to overrule his desires for the purpose of protecting him. With this example, it is clear that if you are not the stupidest poster currently posting, then you really are just trolling. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1033 "2012-07-27T01:19:31Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > With this example, it is clear that if you are not the stupidest poster currently posting[…] Was **ElvisLives** banned or did he just stop posting? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1034 "2012-07-27T01:36:25Z")
**Kozmic,** Your entire argument is predicated on this one, critical factor: **To what power is the Illuminati (et al) as you’ve laid out upthread, beholden or unflinchingly loyal to? What is it that he/she/it has that commands absolute power and obedience, instead of being laughed at or overthrown?** ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1035 "2012-07-27T01:48:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The president has more power and authority than anyone in the Secret Service. However, the president is not, (as you firmly seem to believe), a potentate of unlimited power and authority. He is bound by rules and laws, just as anyone else is. > In regard to one aspect of his life, the Secret Service has authority to overrule his desires for the purpose of protecting him. And they would be protecting him by guarding the building where the meeting is behind held and making sure that no one but heads of government are allowed in. This has already been [asked and answered](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=133264&highlight=President+Secret+Service+overrule) here. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1036 "2012-07-27T01:54:31Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > **What is it that he/she/it has that commands absolute power and obedience, instead of being laughed at or overthrown?** Money can be destroyed, power can be lost, one thing remains. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1037 "2012-07-27T02:03:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > This is the crux of the problem. You have no idea what the word theory means. You mention one well thought out world view which has its roots in the writings of the greatest minds in history. Take the theory to its logical extreme. > [@](#): > > The Realist theory of international relations asserts that states are the main power players in international politics. How would [that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_in_international_relations#Realism) theory apply to the G-192 summit? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1038 "2012-07-27T02:10:59Z")
Two Dopers actually got it!! > [@DrFidelius](#): > > As much as I would hate to seem to be putting my words in someone else’s mouth, our friend \*\*Kozmik \*\*appears to have started from a “what would convince you all of the Illuminati” brain-storming session, through a metaphorical description of one person being in an absolutely more powerful position than any other person, to arrive at the requirement of an actual, physical meeting of world leaders to illustrate this concept. You literally wrote it better than I could myself. > [@Marley23](#): > > Because the UN is not attended by every head of every government, and lots of other people are there. **Kozmik** is proposing a meeting where the only people in attendance are the 192 heads of government and one Illuminatus. In two sentences, **Marley** , you condense my entire argument. You aren’t condenscending anymore! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1039 "2012-07-27T02:11:01Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Money can be destroyed, power can be lost, one thing remains. Oh yes? I’m listening. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/1040 "2012-07-27T02:16:45Z")
We all “get” your argument, **Kozmik**. We just think it’s bullshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=53)