# I pit the derisive, condenscending, anti-conspiriacy ... \[merged threads\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653 "2012-06-29T02:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/101 "2012-07-03T13:14:41Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > No. The leaders of the 242 nations of the world do not run the world. As an aside, where is the ‘242 nations of the world’ coming from? Wikipedia lists 207 sovereign nations\* and they’re including several places whose nationhood is rather iffy (ie, Transnistra, Republic of Northern Cyprus, Abkhasia). What are the extra 35 nations? - [List of sovereign states - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nations_of_the_world) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/102 "2012-07-03T13:22:56Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > My position: > > September 11, 2001 can be explained by 19 persons; 5 on one plane, 5 on another plane, 5 on another plane, and 4 on one other plane. One Egyptian, one Lebanese, two Emirati and 15 Saudi. It was not like December 7, 1941 which could be explained by one nation: Japan. The world was seemingly simple. There was the American Civil War, World War II, the 1960s, and Watergate. (Watergate can be explained by Richard Nixon and how many other men.) Up to here you’re doing pretty well. I don’t think you’ll get much argument from the peanut gallery. You oversimplify things; the world has always been a very complex place. Nations aren’t monolithic blocks; they never have been. There are factions that want different ends all bundled up in the same country, different actors creating organizations and implementing plans at odds with each other. > [@](#): > > After Watergate, however, the world became fracturedly complex. There was the end of the Cold War and then technological development that contributed to events like Stuxnet. There was global community and global crisises. There was fear over something called Y2K. You’re beginning to go astray here. While the technology is different, nothing is fundamentally different in the past 30 years except for the rise on non-governmental actors on the world stage. Stuxnet is very interesting, but it’s not a major event in world history nor does it single a major shift in international relations. Y2K was overblown, but it was a real computer issue that I and 1000’s of others worked on. Your statement makes it sounds like it was imaginary or sinister - it was neither. > [@](#): > > Then there was the desert of the real. I have no idea what this means. > [@](#): > > The world is ruled by the people (7 billion and counting), Barack Obama and 241 others, hackers who created and launched Stuxnet, and the Illuminati who are behind everything. And here’s where you go off the rails. There’s no evidence for the Illuminati, and there’s tons of evidence against them. You make a completely unsupported leap of logic and don’t recognize what you are doing. There’s no rational reason to posit the existence of a secretive cabal controlling world affairs when we see no evidence of it. Nothing you have presented, in any way, shape or form, supports the idea of the Illuminati. All you have is an unsupported hypothesis. You could just have easily said that all world affairs are controlled by turtles. It would have the same predictive power and the same lack of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/103 "2012-07-03T13:38:00Z")
I think the logic is as follows: a. Stuxnet was initiated and implemented by a small group of people acting more-or-less independently of national governments. b. Therefore, everything is initiated and implemented by small groups of people acting more-or-less independently of national governments. c. Therefore, everything is initiated and implemented by _the same_ small group of people acting more-or-less independently of national governments. The problem is, of course, that a. does not prove b., and b. does not prove c. The thing about OCD, you see, is that it often puts the normal human tendency to look for patterns into overdrive, causing one to see patterns that aren’t necessarily there. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/104 "2012-07-03T14:31:22Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > It’s more of an ancient illuminati ritual. It is a shaking of hands, but the hands don’t actually touch, and it serves to identify those who grasp the give and take of life, the spinning of the earth, and what it’s all about. The most senior member instructs the acolytes to extend their right hands into the circle (the give). They are then instructed to remove them (the take). Next, they return their hands to the circle and flap them back and forth (the handshake). At this point the leader instructs the acolytes to rotate 360 degrees. The cycle ends with the senior member intoning, “That’s what it’s all about”. > > Some chapters will repeat this cycle numerous times, substituting a separate body part for the right hand after each rotation. This is preferably performed on roller skates. Sounds kind of hokey. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/105 "2012-07-03T15:12:26Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Sounds kind of hokey. Do it in front of the wrong people and it could land you in the pokey. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/106 "2012-07-03T15:45:16Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Up to here you’re doing pretty well. Ok. > [@Telemark](#): > > You’re beginning to go astray here. Ok. > [@Telemark](#): > > I have no idea what this means. Explained in [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_the_Desert_of_the_Real) book by Slavoj Žižek. > [@Telemark](#): > > And here’s where you go off the rails. Ok. I’m going to oversimplify with the aim of you explaining where I’m going wrong. Three eras: The 2000s: January 1, 2000 - ? A [non-event](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-event), [the absolute event](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard#On_the_terrorist_attacks_of_September_11.2C_2001), war, reality TV, global financial crisis, Obama. The 1990s: January 1, 1990 - December 31, 1999 Gulf War, Sega vs. Nintendo, Clinton, OJ Simpson, talk shows, terrorism, Tamagotchi, Monica Lewinsky, Columbine. Before the 1990s: June 28, 1914 - December 31, 1989 [The end of history](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_Man). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/107 "2012-07-03T15:49:28Z")
Again - patterns that aren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/108 "2012-07-03T15:52:42Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > What are the extra 35 nations? The super secret ones. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/109 "2012-07-03T15:54:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Again - patterns that aren’t there. History [can](http://www.amazon.com/Annals-America-Encyclopedia-Brittanica-Introduction/dp/B000EHNDYY) be divided (and understood). It’s not necessarily arbitrary; for example, the Cold War is over. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/110 "2012-07-03T15:55:07Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > The super secret ones. 😉 No. Check [your sources](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/111 "2012-07-03T15:57:16Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The only thing I have is OCD. […] The world is ruled by the people (7 billion and counting), Barack Obama and 241 others, hackers who created and launched Stuxnet, and the Illuminati who are behind everything. Enough said. Anyway your entire argument is based on a moronic premise. Nobody thinks Barack Obama runs the United States by his lonesome. He’s the president and most people would call him the most powerful individual, but he doesn’t do that job by himself, and he also shares power with the rest of the executive branch, Congress, and the judiciary. Most other countries have a similar system. I think only in dictatorships and non-Constitutional monarchies could you really argue that one person runs an entire country. So we’ve just gone from 242 people to thousands and thousands of people. But the bigger problem (for you) isn’t the fact that this is incoherent nonsense, it’s that it sounds like a paranoid delusion. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/112 "2012-07-03T15:59:34Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > History [can](http://www.amazon.com/Annals-America-Encyclopedia-Brittanica-Introduction/dp/B000EHNDYY) be divided (and understood). It’s not necessarily arbitrary; for example, the Cold War is over. Another example, June 1st, 2012. The Mets get their first no-hitter in their history. But is it? A blown call by the umpire would have meant a double in the 6th inning but it was called foul. Was the ump part of the Illuminati? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/113 "2012-07-03T16:01:36Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > No. Check [your sources](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population). You should probably actually read that list. Pitcairn Islands? Falkland Islands? those are not nations. Check YOUR sources, dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/114 "2012-07-03T16:06:05Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You should probably actually read that list. Pitcairn Islands? Falkland Islands? those are not nations. > > Check YOUR sources, dumbass. I did, smartass. From the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population): > [@](#): > > This is a list of countries by population. The list includes independent countries and inhabited dependent territories based on the ISO standard ISO 3166-1. Also given, as a percentage, is each country’s population compared to the population of the world, which according to the United States Census Bureau population clock is estimated at 7.024 billion. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/115 "2012-07-03T16:37:42Z")
What the hell. You’re not attempting to misuse science to justify your own superiority, so welcome, Kozmik! Tell me more! I’m fascinated and ready to learn! ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/116 "2012-07-03T16:50:43Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I did, smartass. Not very closely, your own quote says: “The list includes independent countries and inhabited dependent territories”. Inhabited dependent territories are not countries. Also, did you see on that list the many entries with a country abbreviation in parenthesis, that means those items belong to the country in the parenthesis. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/117 "2012-07-03T16:58:08Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Not very closely, your own quote says: “The list includes independent countries and inhabited dependent territories”. Inhabited dependent territories are not countries. Also, did you see on that list the many entries with a country abbreviation in parenthesis, that means those items belong to the country in the parenthesis. The quote also says that “This is a list of countries by population.” And if you add up the percentages you should get 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/118 "2012-07-03T17:06:14Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I’m going to oversimplify with the aim of you explaining where I’m going wrong. > > Three eras: > > The 2000s: January 1, 2000 - ? > A [non-event](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-event), [the absolute event](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard#On_the_terrorist_attacks_of_September_11.2C_2001), war, reality TV, global financial crisis, Obama. > > The 1990s: January 1, 1990 - December 31, 1999 > Gulf War, Sega vs. Nintendo, Clinton, OJ Simpson, talk shows, terrorism, Tamagotchi, Monica Lewinsky, Columbine. > > Before the 1990s: June 28, 1914 - December 31, 1989 > [The end of history](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_Man). First, whether history can be divided into eras doesn’t support your idea of the Illuminati. It’s not evidence, it’s just random noise until you connect the dots. Second, what is significant about these three (seemingly arbitrary) eras? I could just as easily divide the last 100 years into 2, 5, 10, or 100’s of eras with the same level of detail and significance. WW II would seem to be a much more significant dividing line than the 1990’s. How about the end of smallpox? Or the rise of Twitter as a communications medium? Third, as others have said, you are looking for patterns where they may not exist. It’s very common and a trait of all humans. But if you step back and look at the totality of the evidence you may realize that the Illuminati don’t exist, and that no external entity is necessary to explain world affairs. But this is turning into a repeat of the previous thread that you are complaining about. You have yet to produce any evidence, or even a coherent hypothesis, but you’re trying harder and we appreciate that. Wait, we’re in the Pit. Fuck, shit, and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/119 "2012-07-03T17:51:51Z")
We see faces in everything. Toast, trees, mountains on Mars. We see intelligent action in everything. That’s how we invented Gods in the first place. So of course, we see CONSPIRACY in everyday events. We’re wired to see patterns. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653/120 "2012-07-03T17:57:09Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > I’m going to oversimplify with the aim of you explaining where I’m going wrong. > > … > > The 2000s: January 1, 2000 - ? > A [non-event](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-event), [the absolute event](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard#On_the_terrorist_attacks_of_September_11.2C_2001), war, reality TV, global financial crisis, Obama. > > The 1990s: January 1, 1990 - December 31, 1999 > Gulf War, Sega vs. Nintendo, Clinton, OJ Simpson, talk shows, terrorism, Tamagotchi, Monica Lewinsky, Columbine. As an attempt to explain your worldview (or much of anything else) it doesn’t really work. As two extra lines to fill out Billy Joel’s “We Didn’t Start The Fire” it’s a decent start. Need to make it rhyme, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-derisive-condenscending-anti-conspiriacy-merged-threads/626653.md?page=7)