# I pit the disposable printer business model **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178 "2010-01-24T00:13:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/21 "2010-01-25T01:29:48Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > I might have accidentally beaten it with a hammer before it reached the trash; that part is a bit fuzzy. “What the fuck does PC LOAD LETTER mean?” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/22 "2010-01-25T01:38:49Z")
Hey OP, did you [post this on imgur](http://imgur.com/gallery/KdNCV)? > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Our printer is fairly modern (bought it two or three years ago), and it doesn’t like refilled cartridges, either. I put refilled ones in and they didn’t print right and the printer software didn’t recognize them as full and good. It really is a huge marketing scam - I hate paying the same price for cartridges as a printer, but I also hate wasting a perfectly good printer. Oh that makes my blood boil. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/23 "2010-01-25T02:57:37Z")
This way you don’t have to clean out the dust bunnies which is a pain in the ass. They always smear ink across your paper. You also collect a nice amount of sample papers and USB cables. Getting a new printer every time you run out of ink is a great sales point. The green and cheep as in tight person can use them as a planter. They can be collected and super glued into a second garage. You can make some nifty cool lighting fixture with the scanner models. They make wonderful retaining walls to show the neighbor you care about them. You can make some nice wind chimes with a couple of these babies. You can put these out attached to a float and use them to catch lobsters. They make a great urn for the cheep funeral and your loved one will fit right in with your techno decor. You can use them as a cat litter box. They are great hamster houses. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/24 "2010-01-25T03:38:50Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I can buy a brand new (slightly newer model) one with cartridges for the same price as replacement cartridges. That makes the whole kit and caboodle completely disposable and I never risk buying new cartridges for a printer that is going to crap out before the cartridges because it’s always a new printer. Last time I bought a printer, it didn’t come with full ink carts. I think this is SOP (fits in to their business model anyway). So if you did buy yourself a new printer, you still aren’t getting as much ink as you would had you bought new carts. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/25 "2010-01-25T12:45:09Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I just bought a Pixma last Nov, but it was more like $120. Now it’s come down to $95 or so. Not sure where and what model you’re getting for $40, but that seems really too low to be true. Not that I’m doubting you. (I have the MX 330). A search on CENT says the Amazon marketplace has some PIXMA iP3600 model for $39, but I’m pretty sure that’s used, so we’d be talking apples and oranges. I think it was [this](http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=12534987) one, but actually their Pixmas start at[$30](http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10151258). ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/26 "2010-01-25T12:48:42Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Last time I bought a printer, it didn’t come with full ink carts. I think this is SOP (fits in to their business model anyway). So if you did buy yourself a new printer, you still aren’t getting as much ink as you would had you bought new carts. This has been true in the past for me, but was not true for this model. I think as they’ve made the cartridges more complicated (they come with a small chip now so you can’t easily made a generic one) it just isn’t worth it to run a separate line of low-volume cartridges. Walgreen’s won’t refill Canon, btw, at least around here. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/27 "2010-01-25T12:54:01Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Our printer is fairly modern (bought it two or three years ago), and it doesn’t like refilled cartridges, either. I put refilled ones in and they didn’t print right and the printer software didn’t recognize them as full and good. It really is a huge marketing scam - I hate paying the same price for cartridges as a printer, but I also hate wasting a perfectly good printer. I’ve never refilled cartridges, but I remember reading some where that some cartridges have a built in counter specifically to make sure you can’t refill them (disguised as some sort of QC device to stop it from printing when the ink got low…or maybe that was the real reason). Anyways, the website went on to show you, on different brands, which contact to put a piece of tape over so the counter couldn’t send it’s data to the printer. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/28 "2010-01-25T13:22:05Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’ve never refilled cartridges, but I remember reading some where that some cartridges have a built in counter specifically to make sure you can’t refill them (disguised as some sort of QC device to stop it from printing when the ink got low…or maybe that was the real reason). Anyways, the website went on to show you, on different brands, which contact to put a piece of tape over so the counter couldn’t send it’s data to the printer. I have a mono laser printer. I’ve never had much luck with inkjets. I don’t print very often, so the ink cartridges would normally dry up on me and when I’d go to use them, nothing would work. I have a brother HL2140 that I bought for around 40-50 dollars. The start toner that they give you lasts for about 1000 pages. I bought a gear kit online for about $1.50 that changes the starter toner cartridge to a full capacity cartridge. The price for some toner refill? About $4 for 3,000 pages. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/29 "2010-01-25T13:33:32Z")
[Relevant article](http://www.cnet.com.au/can-cryptography-prevent-printer-ink-piracy-339279191.htm) about printer ink cartridge development for the future. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/30 "2010-01-25T13:57:29Z")
It’s not just limited to inkjets, either. I’ve got two Xerox lasers here in the office (1 color, one B&W) that were replaced in the last year because new printers were cheaper than buying new cartridges. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/31 "2010-01-25T14:36:15Z")
How much do replacement toner cartridges for laser printers cost? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/32 "2010-01-25T14:53:02Z")
Some inkjet printers are programmed to stop working after a certain amount of throughput - they have a waste ink reservoir in the base of the printer, into which they periodically squirt ink directly, in order to stop the jets from clogging. Any time this happens, an internal counter is incremented and after the counter ascends to a certain predermined value, the printer decides the ink reservoir must be full (without actually measuring or sensing whether it is) and refuses to print any more. I discovered this because my boss in my previous employment was a huge fan of Epson inkjets and they were used for all of the office printing - after a certain time, they would just stop working reporting that they needed a service (and would continue to do that even if restarted, or installed on a different PC). They printers were sufficiently low in price that servicing them was not cost effective - I used to buy replacements and disassemble the dead ones to pull out the motors. There was always a HUGE volume of wasted ink in the waste reservoir, having been used to maintain the jets. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/33 "2010-01-25T15:10:31Z")
The really annoying thing is the clean routine for clogged jets always runs all the colors. You waste the other colors when a specific color is not printing correctly. You should be able to clean just yellow when yellow is the only plugged color. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/34 "2010-01-25T16:32:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > How much do replacement toner cartridges for laser printers cost? I don’t know about color lasers, but my mono laser toner cartridges are generally about $70 each. This is more than the printer cost, but i still consider it good value because i can get 3000-5000 sheets from a single cartridge, and they never dry out or stop working the way that inkjet cartridges do. For me, the biggest problem with the inkjet model is not so much the cost of the ink cartridges compared to the printer (although that is pretty high), but it’s all the other little things that the companies do to screw over their customers. Many of those things have been mentioned in this thread, things like refusing to print a mono print job is the red ink if low, or cleaning ALL the print heads when you only need one of them. The only possible reason for stuff like this is to force people to buy new ink cartridges before they need to. Also, as **Mangetout** notes, inkjet printers waste LOTS of ink, and this is especially bad if you are someone who doesn’t print a lot. If you do a few days, or even weeks, between prints jobs, the whole head-cleaning process can dump a significant percentage of your remaining ink supply. Now, it might be that this is an unavoidable aspect if inkjet technology, and that there’s no way to prevent this. But it’s funny how it also seems to be quite a boon to the companies, who can then sell more ink. > [@Mangetout](#): > > There was always a HUGE volume of wasted ink in the waste reservoir, having been used to maintain the jets. I remember watching the video you had on your website of the reservoir in the bottom of an inkjet printer. Fascinating stuff. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/35 "2010-01-25T17:02:40Z")
How much is the mark-up on printer cartridges anyway? How much do they actually cost to manufacture? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/36 "2010-01-26T21:06:51Z")
Color lasers have the same problems, just on a larger scale. Their cartridges are usually $80 or more. If it needs more than 3 cartridges/drums at a time you might as well buy a new printer. Of course the new printer comes with reduced capacity cartridges, so you’re screwed there too. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/37 "2010-01-26T21:08:56Z")
In the same vein, battery powered drills are pretty much disposable. When the batteries die it’s just about as cheap to buy a whole new rig as it is to buy two batteries. Sometimes it’s cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/38 "2010-01-26T21:21:55Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > You won’t believe the markup on lasers. Especially if they’re mounted on sharks. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/39 "2010-01-26T21:27:06Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Color lasers have the same problems, just on a larger scale. Their cartridges are usually $80 or more. If it needs more than 3 cartridges/drums at a time you might as well buy a new printer. Of course the new printer comes with reduced capacity cartridges, so you’re screwed there too. But there’s a difference. While the cartridges for laser printers might still be expensive compared to the printer itself, at least the very nature of laser printers is not as wasteful and fucked up as inkjets. Sure, you might pay 80 bucks for your cartridge, but you will be able to get plenty of use out of it, and the per-page cost will be low. The problem with inkjets is not JUST that their cartridges are expensive, but that they also waste a shitload of ink in the cleaning process, and they waste even more ink when you only use the printer infrequently. This is not a problem for laser printers. At least with lasers you get to use the toner you pay for, rather than having it puddle in a reservoir at the bottom of the printer after the head-cleaning process. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178/40 "2010-01-26T21:38:38Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > But there’s a difference. While the cartridges for laser printers might still be expensive compared to the printer itself, at least the very nature of laser printers is not as wasteful and fucked up as inkjets. > > Sure, you might pay 80 bucks for your cartridge, but you will be able to get plenty of use out of it, and the per-page cost will be low. The problem with inkjets is not JUST that their cartridges are expensive, but that they also waste a shitload of ink in the cleaning process, and they waste even more ink when you only use the printer infrequently. This is not a problem for laser printers. At least with lasers you get to use the toner you pay for, rather than having it puddle in a reservoir at the bottom of the printer after the head-cleaning process. Our HP 2605 “ran out” of black toner, but the print quality had been fine. We needed to print a big job, so I did some Googling and found a way to override the “out of toner” message. We printed a good solid month more on that black cartridge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-disposable-printer-business-model/526178.md?page=3)