# I Pit the Empire **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2010, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559 "2010-11-05T08:14:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/201 "2010-11-06T17:52:17Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > He was a commie who barely kept his family fed. Then one day he was beggin’ for some food… ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/202 "2010-11-06T19:33:51Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Then one day he was beggin’ for some food… Then up through the ground came a bubblin’ crude. The crude was not owned by the proletariat but instead by a wealthy capitalist pig who would use his vast wealth to repress the working class. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/203 "2010-11-06T19:57:17Z")
I’m trying to think of a good rhyme for “pigdog capitalist!” ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/204 "2010-11-06T20:06:45Z")
I’m reminded of an old Dilbert cartoon where Dogbert got his paws on a prototype phone that was a direct line to the Kremlin. From his prank call to Gorbachev: “Communism is the shortest path between Capitalism and Capitalism.” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/205 "2010-11-06T20:08:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > **SteveG1** , please remember not to tell other posters to fuck themselves, even in the Pit. > > No warning issued. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/206 "2010-11-06T20:57:30Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Fuck the Empire for being the most mass-murdering nation in the history of mass murder. No nation but the Empire has EVER used nuclear weapons on other humans. And the Empire did it twice. \*\*“The Empire Strikes Back to Back” \*\* yo! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/207 "2010-11-06T21:10:57Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Then up through the ground came a bubblin’ crude. The crude was not owned by the proletariat but instead by a wealthy capitalist pig who would use his vast wealth to repress the working class. If only you’d used “working classes”, that would lead right to “proletarian masses”. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/208 "2010-11-07T02:19:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If only you’d used “working classes”, that would lead right to “proletarian masses”. Damn it Jim, I’m a Doper, not a poet. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/209 "2010-11-07T20:21:46Z")
I’m reminded of an old joke: > [@](#): > > In a Soviet classroom, a little boy is asked to define capitalism. > > ‘The oppression of man by man’, he says. > > ‘Good’, says the teacher, ‘and what is communism?’ > > The little boy replies: ‘The opposite’. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/210 "2010-11-08T01:21:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And what does any of that have to do with the wonders of Communism? Has Lukashenko decided he’s a Marxist this month? As I have mentioned previously, socialism is a broad category of various political and economic systems. One does not need to call himself Communist or openly subscribe to Marxism to be a socialist (though, obviously, one’s core principles must at least be closely aligned with Marxist tenets). So, yes, Belarus is a socialist state - wonderfully so, in fact. I am incredibly impressed with its progress under the wise and benevolent leadership of Lukashenko. In essence, Belarus took a good hard look at the Soviet system, perfected what worked, and tossed out what didn’t. The end result is a wonderful little powerhouse of a nation that the Empire can only dream of emulating. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/211 "2010-11-08T01:29:31Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Hey Comissar… again I ask… > > Why would 171 people risk their lives to escape a perfect society? > > _171 people were killed or died attempting to escape at the Berlin Wall between August 13, 1961 and November 9, 1989._ > [Escape attempts to the West - History of Berlin Wall](http://www.dailysoft.com/berlinwall/history/escape.htm) > > So, is trial by AK-47/74 really better than the jury system? People will try to escape anything as long as you tell them that they can’t leave. It just seems to be human nature; put a fence around Utopia, and the Utopians will try to climb over it en masse just to see what the hell is on the other side. The reason for the wall was, of course, the split city of Berlin. If we hadn’t given you control of half the city out of the goodness of our hearts, we would have never needed the wall, and no one would ever have needed to die on it. The road to Hell being paved with good intentions, and all that… Incidentally, that death figure you posted is not as drastic as you make it seem. 171 deaths over a period of 28 years comes out to just slightly more than 6 deaths a year. You slaughter more innocent Afghani and Iraqi civilians AN HOUR, so you can just get right off of that moral high horse again, friend. Moreover, I notice that the Empire is now building it’s own massive version of the Berlin Wall on ITS borders. Let’s compare death rates again in 28 years, then, and see whether you still think that the Red Army was unduly trigger-happy. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/212 "2010-11-08T01:37:28Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > So, yes, Belarus is a socialist state - wonderfully so, in fact. I am incredibly impressed with its progress under the wise and benevolent leadership of Lukashenko. In essence, Belarus took a good hard look at the Soviet system, perfected what worked, and tossed out what didn’t. The end result is a wonderful little powerhouse of a nation that the Empire can only dream of emulating. Yeah, it’s a great place. Unless you’re Polish, Jewish, Gay/Lesbian, or in disagreement with the “wise and benevolent” leadership. :rolleyes: > **[Human rights in Belarus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Belarus)** > > CIS Member State > Parliamentary elections > The government of Belarus is criticized for human rights violations and persecution of non-governmental organisations, independent journalists, national minorities, and opposition politicians. In a testimony to the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice labeled Belarus as one of the world's six "outposts of tyranny". In response, the Belarusian government called the assessment "quite far f... It’s clearly a beacon of how to treat your fellow man, especially compared to the Evil Empire ™. Of course it’s forgivable that you haven’t heard much about the human rights violations. Belarus ranks 154 out of 178 countries in terms of freedom of the press. [http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html](http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html) Belarus is also firmly in the Not Free catagory over at Freedom House too. [http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=22&year=2005&country=6694](http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=22&year=2005&country=6694) ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/213 "2010-11-08T01:58:48Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Incidentally, that death figure you posted is not as drastic as you make it seem. 171 deaths over a period of 28 years comes out to just slightly more than 6 deaths a year. You slaughter more innocent Afghani and Iraqi civilians AN HOUR, so you can just get right off of that moral high horse again, friend. Because two wrongs totally make a right… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/214 "2010-11-08T01:58:59Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Moreover, I notice that the Empire is now building it’s own massive version of the Berlin Wall on ITS borders. Let’s compare death rates again in 28 years, then, and see whether you still think that the Red Army was unduly trigger-happy. This is only prevented from literally being the stupidest thing I’ve read all year by the fact that the Internet is full of illiterate drunks. But the willfullness of the inanity almost makes up for its relative coherence. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/215 "2010-11-08T02:19:22Z")
Come on, Commi, tell us more about why the Berlin Wall was a necessity. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/216 "2010-11-08T02:20:32Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Moreover, I notice that the Empire is now building it’s own massive version of the Berlin Wall on ITS borders. Let’s compare death rates again in 28 years, then, and see whether you still think that the Red Army was unduly trigger-happy. Do you really not see a difference between a wall designed to keep people out and one designed to keep people in? I mean, I know you’re obtuse but surely you’re not that obtuse. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/217 "2010-11-08T02:33:59Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > So, yes, Belarus is a socialist state - wonderfully so, in fact. I am incredibly impressed with its progress under the wise and benevolent leadership of Lukashenko. In essence, Belarus took a good hard look at the Soviet system, perfected what worked, and tossed out what didn’t. The end result is a wonderful little powerhouse of a nation that the Empire can only dream of emulating. Although Belarus a glorious country, it have problem, too: economic, social, and Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/218 "2010-11-08T02:34:20Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Yeah, it’s a great place. Unless you’re Polish, Jewish, Gay/Lesbian, or in disagreement with the “wise and benevolent” leadership. :rolleyes: > [Human rights in Belarus - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Belarus) > > It’s clearly a beacon of how to treat your fellow man, especially compared to the Evil Empire ™. Of course it’s forgivable that you haven’t heard much about the human rights violations. Belarus ranks 154 out of 178 countries in terms of freedom of the press. > [http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html](http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html) > > Belarus is also firmly in the Not Free catagory over at Freedom House too. > [http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=22&year=2005&country=6694](http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=22&year=2005&country=6694) Cherry picking reports of organizations that you already know will be critical of a certain form of government is intellectually lazy and meaningless. Or do you suppose that bias exists only on our side? In other words, do you not think it possible that an organization dedicated to the promotion of multi-party democracy will be somewhat biased against an effectively one-party state? I won’t waste a lot of time on rebutting your non-argument, but let me point two things out: First, in regards to your second link, it seems apparent to me that it was put together by people completely unfamiliar with Belarus. Freedom of press restrictions? There are literally dozens of independent newspapers and magazines widely available, many of the openly hostile to Lukashenko. Moreover, in order to tune in to either Russian OR Western European broadcasts, you simply pick up the remote and hit the “power” button. Voila! Internet? Full access to everything and anything, no censorship. I simply cannot fathom how anyone’s freedom of the press is being suppressed when the government does not seem to be doing anything at all to limit access to information. What a load of self-serving nonsense… No wonder you people are ignorant - your entire world-view is a jumble of misconceptions and zero actual fact checking. Secondly, that third link? I find it funny that several of those poor “youth movements” allegedly being repressed by us evil socialists are, in effect, ultra right-wing neo-Nazi organizations. But, of course, you wouldn’t know this, as their names mean nothing to you. Once again, lies and misdirection, smoke and mirrors. We will not apologize for making life difficult for fascist lowlifes. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/219 "2010-11-08T02:37:18Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Because two wrongs totally make a right… :rolleyes: No, they do not. However, your legitimacy in questioning someone else’s minor mistakes while sitting on a pile of corpses and drinking the blood of millions of innocent people is entirely open to debate. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/220 "2010-11-08T02:41:44Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Do you really not see a difference between a wall designed to keep people out and one designed to keep people in? I mean, I know you’re obtuse but surely you’re not that obtuse. That’s a ridiculous argument, and I think you know it. No matter how many times the Teabaggers and other right-wing Imperial crazies claim to the contrary, a wall is just a wall. It does not acquire an angelic aura of rightness based on the direction that the guns are pointed. When you’re the person getting sniped out, you hardly care about whether they got you coming or going… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559.md?page=12)