# I Pit the Empire **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2010, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559 "2010-11-05T08:14:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/241 "2010-11-09T00:31:37Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Calling Belarus a “powerhouse” is a bit of a stretch - I mean, it ranks 61st on the UNDP Human Development Index. That puts it in the “high human development” category, right below Serbia and above a few European democracies (Georgia, Ukraine, Bosnia, and Macedonia). It’s also, amusingly, slightly above Russia (at 65th). > > But the overwhelming majority of European states, even Eastern European states, clear the top 40 of the HDI. For a European country, even a former Soviet state, Belarus is underperforming badly. [Concur.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus_men%27s_national_ice_hockey_team#Olympic_record) ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/242 "2010-11-09T00:43:43Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Subsidize does not mean the same thing as state-controlled. NPR is subsidized, but not state-controlled. And this particular tangent was about Belarus not having freedom of the press. It doesn’t. But the main point of my first post that you’ve studiously ignored was that Belarus is a festering pit of human rights violations. The postal office, on the other hand, is both subsidized and state-controlled. What of it? State control does not, in my opinion, have negative connotations in and of itself. I am all in favor of having a non-profit state-controlled TV station. That means less commercials for me, as well as less chance of it going under. You’re lashing out at windmills here. > [@](#): > > Yes, they can get their message out by publishing abroad? In general most people don’t take “having to leave the country in order to talk about the government” as a sign of freedom of speech or freedom of the press. Especially if Belarus decides to take you up on the belief that people leaving the country should be shot. I already addressed this. The independent press is alive and well in Belarus. The fact that you refuse to accept this (because it violates your preconceptions) does not make it less true. Have you ever actually been to Belarus? Your entire theory seems to be based on nothing but capitalist propaganda. > [@](#): > > Okay, how often do you log on from Belarus? By your own admission you are a permanent resident (and most likely a naturalized citizen) of the United States of America currently, and for quite some time, living in the United States. I’m guessing this is entirely hypothetical on your part. I log on often when there, which is approximately one or two months a year, circumstances permitting. > [@](#): > > And it’s neat that you’re openly going with the dictatorship as the only good form of government. Even Lukashenko holds rigged elections to pretend otherwise. “Dictatorship” is another meaningless derogatory term. I believe in authoritarian politics, that is true. Not all of us accept the Western nonsense about democracies being inevitably desirable. > [@](#): > > Nyet, comrade. Someone needs to practice their Russian. Gulag, or more properly GUlag, is a Russian acronym. _ **G** lavnoye **u** pravlyeniye ispravityel’no-trudovih **lag** yeryey i koloniy_ is the name of the Soviet agency that administered those happy fun camps. You need to read my posts more carefully, friend. I said that “gulag” is a derogatory term; I did not say that it isn’t a Russian word. The prisons are no longer referred to as “gulags.” They are referred to as “kolonii” (colonies), “lagerya” (camps), or, more colloquially, as “zoni” (zones). ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/243 "2010-11-09T01:03:13Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I log on often when there, which is approximately one or two months a year, **circumstances permitting**. (my bolding) In other words: once, in 1960, for 20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/244 "2010-11-09T01:21:56Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > You need to read my posts more carefully, friend. I said that “gulag” is a derogatory term; I did not say that it isn’t a Russian word. The prisons are no longer referred to as “gulags.” They are referred to as “kolonii” (colonies), “lagerya” (camps), or, more colloquially, as “zoni” (zones). You said, “‘Gulag’ is a derogatory term mostly used by the West.” The reason it was picked up by the West was because that was the term used by Soviets–as you admit: “no longer referred to as”–and it was meant in a derogatory fashion by them as well. c.f. Solzhenitzen. You can’t possibly imagine that we are as ignorant as you treat us. I can’t possibly imagine what honest motivation you have. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/245 "2010-11-09T01:27:49Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Have you ever actually been to Belarus? Have you ever actually been to China? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/246 "2010-11-09T02:15:06Z")
I seriously doubt the OP’s “friend back home” is getting [the best medical care in the world](http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1033.html): > [@](#): > > **MEDICAL FACILITIES AND HEALTH INFORMATION:** Medical care in Belarus is neither modern nor easily accessible, especially for those who do not speak Russian. There are no hospitals in Belarus that provide a level of medical care equal to that of Western hospitals, and none accept U.S. health insurance plans for payment. Despite the recent emergence of facilities which offer private “advanced” medical services, modern diagnostic equipment and even basic supplies are still lacking. Traumatic injuries are especially serious as the level of care and competence to deal with them are well below U.S. standards. > > Ambulances are poorly equipped and unreliable; a wait time of 30 minutes or more is not unusual. The fastest way to secure Western-level care is medical evacuation to Western Europe. You should consider purchasing medical evacuation insurance prior to travel, or have access to substantial credit to cover evacuation costs. There are no air ambulance services in Belarus. “Local” health insurance for non-residents is required for all visitors by the government and may be purchased at points of entry. I’m wondering where the OP got the idea that medical care is free in Belarus. One must purchase medical insurance. That’s not in place just for giggles. I also noticed that the Belarusian government can require dual nationals to perform military service before they let them out of the country. Maybe that’s why the OP’s not hopped up on living there? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/247 "2010-11-09T02:20:05Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You said, “‘Gulag’ is a derogatory term mostly used by the West.” The reason it was picked up by the West was because that was the term used by Soviets–as you admit: “no longer referred to as”–and it was meant in a derogatory fashion by them as well. c.f. Solzhenitzen. > > You can’t possibly imagine that we are as ignorant as you treat us. Of course he can. Remember TOST episode, _Mirror, Mirror_? Spock’s comment to Captain Kirk applies well here also. Just as it is hard for a savage to act civilized, it is hard for the ignorant to recognize non-ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/248 "2010-11-09T03:49:13Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Oh, come ON, people! What does he need to do, start complaining about the Three Billy Goats Gruff trampling on his roof? [shrug] It’s a slow week. We can feed him curried goat all night. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/249 "2010-11-09T04:10:07Z")
My only consolation in regards to this history blind idiot is knowing that it’s only the collapse of his Union and the spreading of freedom that has allowed him to spread his idiocy. And, of course, knowing that if he could have gotten a chance to live on a collective farm or outside of a large city, he’d probably have ended up dead. So there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/250 "2010-11-09T04:11:06Z")
So why is a diehard Soviet going with a German username? And why does he think he’s going to be good at trolling talking like a 1980s throwback? Come to think of it, “Der Commissar” is just! so! 80s as well. Did that guy get a cryogenic cable get stuck up his ass for 30 years? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/251 "2010-11-09T04:12:49Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Have you ever actually been to Belarus? Nope. Have you? ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/252 "2010-11-09T04:53:07Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I seriously doubt the OP’s “friend back home” is getting [the best medical care in the world](http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1033.html): > I’m wondering where the OP got the idea that medical care is free in Belarus. One must purchase medical insurance. That’s not in place just for giggles. > > I also noticed that the Belarusian government can require dual nationals to perform military service before they let them out of the country. Maybe that’s why the OP’s not hopped up on living there? Belarus has a fully socialized healthcare system. All medical procedures are 100% free for 100% of Bellarussian citizens. The only people required to purchase medical coverage are foreigners visiting Belarus. The last time I traveled with one of those, he was required to pay a whopping grand total of $20 for said coverage for a 3-month trip. In my experience, Belarus has state-of-the-art medical facilities, so the other criticism presented by you is unfounded and silly. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/253 "2010-11-09T05:03:27Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You can’t possibly imagine that we are as ignorant as you treat us. I don’t know about that; I’m beginning to get the sinking feeling that the vast majority of you really are more ignorant than I originally gave you credit for. For a self-proclaimed community of intellectuals and pedants, you seem to be quite average in terms of rationality and open-mindedness. Look at this thread, for example… Even though I am attempting to debate you people as intellectual equals, 9 out of 10 of you can do nothing but shriek hysterically while spewing insult after insult at me. So, yes, I think most of you really are pretty ignorant, not to mention dangerously fanatical and biased. I would say I expected more, but hey, it’s the Internet. Expectations must always be suitably low. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/254 "2010-11-09T05:09:46Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > The postal office, on the other hand, is both subsidized and state-controlled. What of it? I have no idea what of it. When you can explain how the post office is related to freedom of speech/freedom of the press maybe I’ll understand why you think it’s relevant. This is still just a tangent from the gross violation of human rights regularily engaged in by the Belarus government though. > [@](#): > > The independent press is alive and well in Belarus. The fact that you refuse to accept this (because it violates your preconceptions) does not make it less true. Once of us is certainly not going to be challenged out of their preconceptions. I’ve provided several cites showing a complete lack of freedom of the press in Belarus. Unfortunately, you cannot same about this “alive and well” independent press. > [@](#): > > I log on often when there, which is approximately one or two months a year, circumstances permitting. That’s a “never” then, yes? > [@](#): > > “Dictatorship” is another meaningless derogatory term. No, see, it has a specific meaning. “An autocratic form of government in which the government is ruled by an individual,” to be precise. Just because you can recognise the negative implications in a word doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply. Like “gulag” the word “dictatorship” doesn’t magically go away because you want it too. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/255 "2010-11-09T05:21:29Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Even though I am attempting to debate you people as intellectual equals . . . There’s a different forum for that. This forum is for rants and insults and rage. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/256 "2010-11-09T05:25:35Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > I have no idea what of it. When you can explain how the post office is related to freedom of speech/freedom of the press maybe I’ll understand why you think it’s relevant. This is still just a tangent from the gross violation of human rights regularily engaged in by the Belarus government though. The point is that you seem to find nationalized entities inherently worrying, and I do not. Since most nations that are not Somalia tend to have state-run enterprises of one sort or another, this must put you in the uncomfortable position of being worried all the time. I, like many people, do not find a state-run newspaper terrifying. > [@](#): > > Once of us is certainly not going to be challenged out of their preconceptions. I’ve provided several cites showing a complete lack of freedom of the press in Belarus. Unfortunately, you cannot same about this “alive and well” independent press. All the links you posted (and all the links you can realistically post) come from organizations with a vested interest in belittling a socialist system. I am sure that I can find pro-socialist sources stating the opposite (and, in fact, belittling your beloved capitalist system). Frankly, what’s the point? You won’t be swayed, and I would have wasted my time. You could, of course, personally verify my account, but we both know that you won’t do that either. So, an impasse. > [@](#): > > That’s a “never” then, yes? That’s three or four times in any given five consecutive years. > [@](#): > > No, see, it has a specific meaning. “An autocratic form of government in which the government is ruled by an individual,” to be precise. Just because you can recognise the negative implications in a word doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply. Like “gulag” the word “dictatorship” doesn’t magically go away because you want it too. Your preferred definition fails to adequately define the term. Most nations have governments, and most governments are ultimately managed by an individual. The only defining characteristic of your definition is use of the word “autocratic.” Thus, you seem to define “dictatorship” as “autocracy,” which is simply definition via synonym, which is no definition at all. I don’t like the term not because I fear it, but because it a meaningless weasel-word that exists simply to be flung at one’s enemies for political points. I prefer precision of language, so I would rather use definable terms when discussing politics. You can use it all you want, if you like; just don’t expect it to strengthen your arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/257 "2010-11-09T05:30:37Z")
Please Commissar, tell me more about the glories of communism. I am interested and wish to learn more about your viewpoint. Who would you say inspires you? What policies do you favor to create a more socialist state? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/258 "2010-11-09T05:43:22Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Even though I am attempting to debate you people as intellectual equals, 9 out of 10 of you can do nothing but shriek hysterically while spewing insult after insult at me. I’d say by claiming we’re your intellectual equals, you’re the one who started the insults. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/259 "2010-11-09T05:46:56Z")
And I don’t know how they do things back in Minsk but here in America - > [@](#): > > Congratulations; you are now an idiotic nation, represented by idiots, ruled by an idiot. If you disappeared in a puff of nuclear smoke tomorrow, the world would breathe a sigh of relief. > > Your only two notable accomplishments are exterminating your native population and enslaving your imported black population. And both of those put you slightly behind NAZI Germany in terms of human progress. > > To summarize: > > Fuck you, you stupid Americans. Fuck your empire. Fuck your imperialism. Most of all, however, fuck each and every one of you that truly believes that your piece of shit country belongs in the circle of civilized nations. - doesn’t qualify as the opening of a debate among intellectual equals. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559/260 "2010-11-09T07:39:12Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Even though I am attempting to debate you people as intellectual equals. Being your intellectual equal would require most posters here to have a lobotomy. You’re not even doing very well as a troll; you’re not getting outrage and indignation but rather laughter and derision in response to even your most outrageous and inflammatory attempts to stir the pot. Cripes, this isn’t even a very hard message board to troll and you’re failing at that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-empire/559559.md?page=14)