# I pit the end user **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978 "2012-06-22T19:17:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/61 "2012-06-24T15:35:43Z")
> [@Spiny\_Norman](#): > > [QUOTE=Curiosity Kills Her] > > I call this “I’m magic.” I usually insist it’s my Benevolent Presence. [/QUOTE] I tell people that computers fear me and when they hear me coming, they know they’d better shape up NOW. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Don’t walk up to my desk and say “I hate to bother you, but…” If you hate to bother me, then don’t. > > Sometimes I say this because I know the person is really busy, I don’t like disturbing them and I wish I could resolve it myself, but I have to ask something of them. I don’t care how sincerely the person saying “I hate to bother you” is. It \*sounds \*insincere, and it’s been so over-/mis-used that it’s nearly meaningless. I would much rather someone just say, “Pardon me, I need to talk to you” or “I see you’re busy, but please call me as soon as you can.” My least favorite variation on this is, “Got a minute?” usually uttered as someone walks into my workspace, sits down and settles in. Someone pulled this on me the other day, with another colleague in tow. I pointed out - in a good-natured way- that I couldn’t really say “No” at that point. His “minute” turned into a half hour meeting. I spent a couple of hours researching what he needed, sent him an email explaining the options available, and you know what? I haven’t seen so much as a “Thank you” email from him. Jerk. OP gets a 9 out of 10 from me. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/62 "2012-06-25T02:10:24Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > Recently I’ve had a run of computer issues (I being one of those end users) where I will have a problem, try everything I can think of, finally fire off an email and\* the moment I hit send I realize the answer and fix it myself.\* > > Must have happened five times in the last month. IT keeps getting emails from me: 1:06pm “I’ve got an issue…”; 1:08pm “Nevermind.” > > It’s gotten to the point I’m not even embarrassed anymore, it’s just SOP. Heh, I don’t mind those so much – they become easy cases to resolve. “2gigch1 resolved issue.” Close. Onto the next case… When I work on a case, I read all the case notes almost all the time to see what prior troublehooting and techniques have been tried. Despite that, I am often vague when I go to a user’s desk or call him or her to work on it. I do this to get that person’s point of view on what happened and most of the time, I know what I need to do anyway. I had one coworker a couple years ago that looked at me like I was sprouting Martian babies out of my ears when I came up to her desk. I had no idea what kind of troubles she was having talking to the help desk tech on the phone, but I was able to sit down and fix her issue with Outlook in about 5 minutes. After that her attitude totally flipped around and she loves me. Sometimes people lie. When I see a case that says “monitor looks green” that usually means a cable is loose, but then the notes right there say that the user checked all the cables. User must have checked all the cables except the loose one. Other times, there’s a difference between what the user needs, what he _thinks_ he needs, what he asks for, what the tech on the phone says he can have, and what I am able to give him. I get to be on the other end sometimes, too. We have a maintenance contract for our copier machines, so when I call them for support, they always work down the checklist with me until they can send someone. I figured out pretty early to unplug the copier for 10 seconds first before I do anything else. If I say i just shut it down and restarted it, the tech on the phone is going to ask me to go back and unplug it to clear whatever needs to be cleared. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/63 "2012-06-25T04:01:52Z")
I guess we cant say ‘first world problems’ any more? When the worst you’re getting is people not being smart enough, you’ve got it pretty good as far as a service role goes. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/64 "2012-06-25T08:30:38Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > There is something I call “The Repair Man Syndrome”. Something doesn’t work. You get the technician/help desk person on the line, you take your car into the shop, the plumber shows up… and everything works fine. And you feel like an idiot. Bad customer service people think you are one and possibly show it. Nowadays I laugh and explain that it’s just another example of TRMS, oh well, call me if it stops working again. I call it The Magical Aura. My current programmer (who is absolutely great, please Og can my future programmers be like this one?) has already learned the term and handed it over to the whole Programmers Team. Sometimes we need to call them to run a debug, not because there is anything wrong with the program, but because we can’t figure out how the fuck the program works or what the bloody ass-split does that error actually _mean_… “mind coming over? I need your Magic Aura Of Figuring Things.” I happen to have Magic Aura on other people’s machines, some people have Magic Aura on mine. So long as the blasted machines go back to working, it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/65 "2012-06-25T09:54:09Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > After some thought he offered this solution - cut a space out under the faucet and slide it under the wall (into the adjacent bedroom I presume). > . Doen properly that may just work - turn the protrusion in the other room into a seat, or build a cupboard above it - if he’s willing to live with it - why not? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/66 "2012-06-25T11:37:34Z")
I’ll give the rant a 8.5 out of 10. Complaints were spot on and fairly universal. Just remember that IT departments at different companies will have various levels of competency, like most departments. Heck, I even got a competent person on the phone the last time I called the _cable company!_ :eek: I’ve managed IT support teams for over 20 years and I’ve seen the arrogant d-bags come and go (usually pretty quickly.) Some of the ticket management systems just suck too, which may be why some of your properly documented requests still generate basic questions. Not your fault, but I have seen it first hand. They also tend to be expensive to buy and implement so companies stick with them longer than they should. The biggest issue we have with support is that our Help Desk manager hires people with customer service skills first, with less emphasis on technical knowledge. So they can cheerfully not solve your problem… She’s confident that their (lack of) knowledge-base will allow anyone with a good attitude to resolve most issues. Snort. Unless you are supporting a simple widget, that almost never works. Way too many variables on each PC for canned answers. Again, not your fault, and my 2nd tier team can fix 94% of your issues when they get them. Not the way I’d run the Help Desk. Ahhhh… end users. The thing that I always drill into my team is to remember that people are just trying to do their jobs. The PC is just a tool they use. Some are tech-savvy, many are not. They don’t need to be. That’s the beauty of a computer. A repetitive task can be done without knowing the reason why it works. If their computer isn’t working they often can’t do their jobs. Some handle it well; some get frustrated. Who knows why, and who cares? We treat everyone with courtesy. If my guys need to come back to the IT lab and vent behind closed doors, that’s fine. Or on a message board. I draw the line, however, at the guy who called me directly to say his laptop “all of the sudden stopped working” and “he has a really important presentation to deliver.” I sit near the Help Desk folks so I told him to bring it to me and I’ll take a quick look (and I’ll have him submit a ticket while I’m doing it.) He brings it to my office and the thing is _wrecked_. Missing a big piece of plastic from one corner. LCD screen is showing splotches of bruisey colors when I boot it up. Me: Umm, what happened to this thing? Him: Nothing, it just stopped working. Me: Really, when did it stop working? Him: Well, my wife may have knocked it off the kitchen counter onto the ceramic tile floor… Me (in my head): Ya think? You jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/67 "2012-06-25T11:55:55Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I call it The Magical Aura. My current programmer (who is absolutely great, please Og can my future programmers be like this one?) has already learned the term and handed it over to the whole Programmers Team. Sometimes we need to call them to run a debug, not because there is anything wrong with the program, but because we can’t figure out how the fuck the program works or what the bloody ass-split does that error actually _mean_… “mind coming over? I need your Magic Aura Of Figuring Things.” > > I happen to have Magic Aura on other people’s machines, some people have Magic Aura on mine. So long as the blasted machines go back to working, it’s all good. I’ve called in FM since my days in the Army. When something doesn’t work and then all of a sudden it does, that’s FM. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/68 "2012-06-25T13:17:59Z")
[![](http://possumblog.mu.nu/images/bummer%20of%20a%20birthmark.jpg) ](http://possumblog.mu.nu/images/bummer%20of%20a%20birthmark.jpg) This comic accurately communicates what a Customer Service Rep (Hal) is. Whether you like it or not, people will act in a way that is subhuman. It isnt right, but it is reality ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/69 "2012-06-25T16:09:45Z")
On the flip side… I wouldn’t bother “you” at all, if they would let me fix the damn thing myself. They don’t. So I have to call a “help desk” that is useless, only to have them tell me to call you, because even though you sit right here, I can’t talk to you directly without getting their “permission” first. Also, I don’t appreciate you rearranging the shared drive all. the. time. so NO one can find their own files. No, I will NOT be responsible for other peoples files or take heat for you re-arrangi9ng them again. I like how every directory has different “rights” too, so no one can see shit. No I do not need constant pushes of broken software upgrades that continually make the entire system slower and slower all the time, and which break the database files and macros we used for years. Finally, thanks for telling us for years to back up our stuff, and then through various “protections” making sure we CAN’T. I can’t wait to see what happens the day we are forceably migrated to the Cloud. Single point failure opportunity for EVERYthing. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/70 "2012-06-25T18:37:41Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > Fine. As long as you don’t get huffy when I tell you that if you bothered to read the ticket I submitted, I’ve already done that. Yeah, but _every_ time someone tells me they rebooted I check the processor time. And _EVERY_ time the PC has been up for days, weeks or months. Sorry, but too many users lie to believe any of them\*. > [@akennett](#): > > Fuck it. I’ll pretend to have sympathy for IT goons’ whining after a single fucking IT goon shows me that they can competently fix a, IT problem beyond “computer plug go in wall.” And, in my business you would instantly fall to the very bottom of the give a shit list. As in, fuck right off. You’ll break your shit worse than it started and then you’ll sit and wait until I have handled the serious issues. Then, when I get around to you, after strapping down every cable in the building just cause the wiring ought to look purty, I’ll get on the horn with your boss about your mad computer skillz and how helpful they are to your productivity. So far, this has worked wonderfully well. For me at least. Surprisingly, once I started doing this people suddenly stopped fixing their own problems and their computers actually work. > [@](#): > > In general, don’t tell me to do the exact same shit that I already told you I have done, especially when I’ve gone into explicit detail. But please do blow me off with a “I’ll look into this and get back to you” and then disappear for weeks. Ah, so in other words you want people to troubleshoot problems by _GUESSING_. No wonder they blow you off. Sorry pal, but unless the IT staff sees it, it didn’t happen. Why? BECAUSE USERS LIE. I imagine that your IT staff trusts you a little bit more than Ralph, the differently-abled janitor, when it comes to computer issues. In my house, you’d be so locked down that you wouldn’t be _able_ to break anything. Slee \*Actually, the number is about 50%. 50% of the time the PC they swear they rebooted has not been restarted. Users lie. A least a reasonable percentage of them. Until you prove to me that you are not a liar and know at least a little about computers I assume that you are a liar who has never touched one before. The reason I do this is that I resolve problems faster when I don’t go chasing fairy tales told by users. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/71 "2012-06-25T19:45:48Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Me: Umm, what happened to this thing? > Him: Nothing, it just stopped working. > Me: Really, when did it stop working? > Him: Well, my wife may have knocked it off the kitchen counter onto the ceramic tile floor… > Me (in my head): Ya think? You jackass. It would be nice if the end users are just upfront with how they broke their equipment, but too often there’s that “gosh I don’t know what happened” run around. They can be like little kids who don’t want to tell mom that they broke the kitchen window or something. The replacement equipment isn’t coming out of my pocket, so ultimately I’m not going to give too much trouble for needing help and I know that person needs that laptop to do their job. I do get times were the person would tell me about dropping her Blackberry in the toilet or about the laptop falling over backwards onto the tile floor. I appreciate those stories – the toilet one was especially funny. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/72 "2012-06-25T19:52:08Z")
I support a software application and there are two gems in this thread that were taught to me when I first arrived: 1. Customers lie. (They don’t even mean to most of the time.) 2. It will work when I try it. (We call it FM which is short for Fucking Magic.) However, the third rule seems to have been missed: 1. Everyone thinks they know more than they do. Including me. If you keep 1 and 3 in mind at all times when you are trying to solve a problem, you should be good. Aside: the lines, ‘What can I say, I’m magic,’ and, ‘Just humour the support person and try it again,’ are my catch phrases. None of the above means I don’t like my job. I LOVE my job. However, sometimes you just gotta vent and the OP nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/73 "2012-06-25T19:54:11Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > I do get times were the person would tell me about dropping her Blackberry in the toilet or about the laptop falling over backwards onto the tile floor. I appreciate those stories – the toilet one was especially funny. My boss ran over his blackberry with his car. It was not only quite amusing but it was amazing that it still worked! The screen had a crack but was still useable. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/74 "2012-06-25T20:19:24Z")
[QUOTE=Southern Yankee] I draw the line, however, at the guy who called me directly to say his laptop “all of the sudden stopped working” and “he has a really important presentation to deliver.” I sit near the Help Desk folks so I told him to bring it to me and I’ll take a quick look (and I’ll have him submit a ticket while I’m doing it.) He brings it to my office and the thing is _wrecked_. Missing a big piece of plastic from one corner. LCD screen is showing splotches of bruisey colors when I boot it up. Me: Umm, what happened to this thing? Him: Nothing, it just stopped working. Me: Really, when did it stop working? Him: Well, my wife may have knocked it off the kitchen counter onto the ceramic tile floor… Me (in my head): Ya think? You jackass. [/QUOTE] I think I used to work with his wife. One day, I head a bang, which is out of the ordinary for a quiet office. I then heard her gasp and mutter, which was not entirely uncommon for her. Two minutes later, she’s at my desk with a sick laptop - the display is garbled and there’s an empty space in the keyboard. Quick math - Solve for _X_: Bang + Gasp + Muttering + Broken Laptop = \*X \*dropped it Oh no, of course she didn’t drop it. It just stopped working. Yeah, about half a second before the ALT key landed on the carpet. Lucky for her, the key just snapped back on and the impact of landing on carpet-covered concrete only dislodged an internal cable. Ten minutes later, she was ready to adopt me. As for lying customers, yes, a good many of them will try to get something past you. I’ve never had a user not change their tune once I pull up the access logs. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/75 "2012-06-25T20:20:59Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > My least favorite variation on this is, “Got a minute?” usually uttered as someone walks into my workspace, sits down and settles in. Someone pulled this on me the other day, with another colleague in tow. I saw someone judo that opening, and I’ve copied it ever since. The correct response to “Got a minute?” is “For you, I got at least 20 minutes. But not now.” The you open your calendar and schedule 20 minutes or however long is needed. It actually works. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/76 "2012-06-25T20:30:00Z")
> [@Spiny\_Norman](#): > > I saw someone judo that opening, and I’ve copied it ever since. The correct response to “Got a minute?” is “For you, I got at least 20 minutes. But not now.” The you open your calendar and schedule 20 minutes or however long is needed. > > It actually works. “Got a minute?” “In a minute.” ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/77 "2012-06-25T21:10:40Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > So the bad attitude is mutual then, eh? > > Most techs are not “clueless”. On the contrary, we have lots of clues about how these things work, how often people lie to us, and what really solves the issue. That’s why we have this dumpster full of salt parked behind our cubes when it comes to claims you’ve done everything and it isn’t fixing the problem. 😉 If you read the _entire_ post you quoted, you would have seen that I said the tech support places hire clueless monkeys as _gate-keepers_ to keep me away from an _actual_ tech support person. It took me half an hour once, while setting up a friend’s email to a new ISP, to get past the monkey who _couldn’t_ understand that I wasn’t using Outlook Express, and the machine wasn’t even running Windows. When I _finally_ got to a real tech support person, it took 30 seconds for me to ask and get answered the _only_ thing I needed to know to do it myself on that machine, “What’s the name of the POP3 server?” The clueless monkey couldn’t tell me that, because it wasn’t on his checklist. He didn’t even know what it was. And, as I said, it’s the lying idiots you complain about that cause those clueless monkeys to be hired as gate-keepers in the first place. In case it isn’t obvious, I was _agreeing_ with you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/78 "2012-06-26T02:46:11Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > In case it isn’t obvious, I was _agreeing_ with you. 😉 Sorry, my clueless monkey didn’t read the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/79 "2012-06-26T03:06:46Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > When I am working on your buddy’s PC, feel free to walk up and say “Broke your PC again? I guess you shouldn’t have been looking at all that porn!” That was funny the first few thousand times I heard it, but it is getting a little old now. Among my (relatively tech-savvy) group of friends, “shouldn’t’ve been looking at all that porn” has become the reflexive response to mention of any PC problems, much like most people will reflexively say “thank you” for little banal things like being handed change by a cashier. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978/80 "2012-06-26T06:10:29Z")
> [@Spiny\_Norman](#): > > I saw someone judo that opening, and I’ve copied it ever since. The correct response to “Got a minute?” is “For you, I got at least 20 minutes. But not now.” The you open your calendar and schedule 20 minutes or however long is needed. > > It actually works. OMG can I get you to be my support person? Please? I’m one of the implementors (after the first team who had no training but had brains and the second team who had training but neither brains nor spines) and the support dude for the part I work on is a PoS (not point of sale) who is always “too busy” to tell us what the FUCK have they done, that there are things the system does which should be impossible. Busy. Always busy. And my boss is one of those helluva nice pushovers, his response to “we still haven’t gotten that information from support” is “oh. Ask him again?” After four months, I’m ready to ask with a chainsaw. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-end-user/625978.md?page=5)