# I pit the family of that kid who got shot. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300 "2006-01-17T02:20:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/81 "2006-01-17T23:40:21Z")
This is armchair quarterback at its absolute worst. Take cover? How do you even know if there was cover? ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/82 "2006-01-17T23:41:15Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Wow, **Siege** , what haven’t you tried? PCP? Autoerotic asphyxiation? A ride in a hot air balloon? Give her time…I’m quite sure that she’ll let you know **allllllllllllll** about it. And probably use the word **“I”** a dozen or so times for each occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/83 "2006-01-17T23:41:51Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Wow, **Siege** , what haven’t you tried? PCP? Autoerotic asphyxiation? A ride in a hot air balloon? Ya know, I just knew some twit would come along with a comment like this. Here are the details. My attempted suicide-by-cop was a damned lame, desperate attempt which came shortly after I’d attempted to throw myself out of a moving car twice on the way to the hospital and while I was almost completely catatonic with depression. Pretty much the only thing I was capable of doing voluntarily was trying to kill myself. I don’t remember much myself; my mind was too shot. I remember the cop, the gun, and the vague notion that if I lunged for him he’d have to shoot me. I also remember noticing the bruise on my arm a week later and asking my fiance how it got there. It got there when he stopped me from going for the cop’s gun which would have been one of the stupidest and cruelest things I’ve done in a life full of stupidity. I talk about my experiences in the vague hope that someone else _won’t_ wind up in a hospital, determined to die, or worse, kill themselves and take someone out with them or inflict the guilt of causing their death on another human being. If you don’t like that, that’s your problem. Oh, and for the record, I have ridden in a hot air balloon; I have not tried illegal drugs or killing myself for pleasure. I may be the stupidest human being on the face of the earth sometimes, but there are some forms of stupidity I’ve managed to avoid. Siege ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/84 "2006-01-17T23:48:18Z")
That may be so, **Siege** , but the problem is, it doesn’t come off that way. The impression is of you constantly jumping in to threads about tragedy, waving your arms and bleating, “Ooh! Ooh! Me too! It happened to me too!” It doesn’t _seem_ like you’re trying to help others; it _seems_ like you’re looking for sympathy and attention. Plus, it’s mind-boggling how many connections (very tenuous connections in some cases) you find with these real-life cases. Katrina, for example. You were hospitalized because you saw news footage of a hurricane? Hey, I got fired the Friday before 9/11; should I post about that in every 9/11 thread? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/85 "2006-01-17T23:51:21Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > This is armchair quarterback at its absolute worst. Take cover? How do you even know if there was cover? In Canada, do they use question marks? 'Cause I thought I was asking questions, not making judgements. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/86 "2006-01-17T23:53:46Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Ya know, I just knew some twit would come along with a comment like this. Here are the details… This twit apologizes if his last post caused any confusion. It was a snide remark. It was not a request for any further detail. Perhaps the reason for your confusion and for my remark are one in the same. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/87 "2006-01-17T23:57:39Z")
> [@Xploder](#): > > Give her time…I’m quite sure that she’ll let you know **allllllllllllll** about it. And probably use the word **“I”** a dozen or so times for each occurrence. Well, 14 times anyway… ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/88 "2006-01-17T23:58:58Z")
No, I was hospitalized because during Hurricane Iniki, the news media were reporting that fish were swimming down the street my ground floor apartment was on. My neighborhood had been evacuated, and, the day before my landlord was threatening me with eviction. I had every reason to believe my home was destroyed. I admit going nearly catatonic was an over-reaction. I don’t think being terrified when the news media’s reporting a category 5 hurricane is heading straight for your home is. The news media was wrong. Waikiki didn’t flood, and Iniki scored a direct hit on Kauai, instead. Unfortunately, I didn’t know that at the time. **Maeglin** , apology accepted. It’s been a rotten day, as you may have gathered. CJ ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/89 "2006-01-18T00:02:04Z")
> [@](#): > > **Siege** said: > Ya know, I just knew some twit would come along with a comment like this. Here are the details. My attempted suicide-by-cop was a damned lame, desperate attempt which came shortly after I’d attempted to throw myself out of a moving car twice on the way to the hospital and while I was almost completely catatonic with depression. Pretty much the only thing I was capable of doing voluntarily was trying to kill myself. I’ve heard of selective memory, and selective hearing, but I’ve never heard of selective catatonia. Are there any psychiatrists or psychologists on the forum here who can tell me how common partial catatonia or selective catatonia is? I thought catatonia was absolute. > [@](#): > > Oh, and for the record, I have ridden in a hot air balloon; I have not tried illegal drugs or killing myself for pleasure. I may be the stupidest human being on the face of the earth sometimes, but there are some forms of stupidity I’ve managed to avoid. There are lot of things that a person can do that are dumber than lighting up an (illegal) bone or two. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/90 "2006-01-18T00:03:11Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > That may be so, **Siege** , but the problem is, it doesn’t come off that way. The impression is of you constantly jumping in to threads about tragedy, waving your arms and bleating, “Ooh! Ooh! Me too! It happened to me too!” It doesn’t _seem_ like you’re trying to help others; it _seems_ like you’re looking for sympathy and attention. Plus, it’s mind-boggling how many connections (very tenuous connections in some cases) you find with these real-life cases. Katrina, for example. You were hospitalized because you saw news footage of a hurricane? Hey, I got fired the Friday before 9/11; should I post about that in every 9/11 thread? Yeah, there’s definitely all the hallmarks of the “attention-seeking” suicidal type. Or the type of person who, because they’ve had rough patches of history in their life feel the need to share it anytime someone else has something rough happen to them. You know the type, the person who calls you right after your mom dies and in mid-conversation just interrupts you with, “Yeah, I was really sad too when my third cousin John died seven years ago, oh, and guess what, I bought a new pair of shoes today.” ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/91 "2006-01-18T00:12:22Z")
Freakin’ hampsters… Okay, **Siege** , but your anecdotes still don’t seem to carry the message of “I got through it and what didn’t kill me made me stronger.” They always stop with you in the hospital. Many posters have stories about addiction **and recovery** , abuse **and their escape from it** , assault **and moving on from it**. You never tell the second half of the story, assuming there is one. It’s all just “I fell apart.” If you want your stories to be inspirational, tell about how you put yourself back together. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/92 "2006-01-18T00:17:26Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > **Maeglin** , apology accepted. It’s been a rotten day, as you may have gathered. > > CJ pssst…I don’t think that was an apology… ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/93 "2006-01-18T00:20:07Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Freakin’ hampsters… > > Okay, **Siege** , but your anecdotes still don’t seem to carry the message of “I got through it and what didn’t kill me made me stronger.” They always stop with you in the hospital. Many posters have stories about addiction **and recovery** , abuse **and their escape from it** , assault **and moving on from it**. You never tell the second half of the story, assuming there is one. It’s all just “I fell apart.” If you want your stories to be inspirational, tell about how you put yourself back together. See there’s where you make a mistake, she never **did** put herself back together. Everything is always gloom and doom and I fell apart whoa is me, poor, poor me. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/94 "2006-01-18T00:21:21Z")
OK, look, I admit my remarks in the Katrina thread were stupid, selfish and shortsighted. I regret making them and if apologies are needed, here they are. As I said, I’ve done a lot of stupid things in my life, and that was one of them. My intention in this thread wasn’t self-aggrandizement; it was to support the deputy who did shoot the kid. If it came across as self-aggrandizement, I apologize. It is possible for a human being to become so twisted up with hatred, fear, and pain that death seems to be the only way out. It’s a crying shame that that kid down in Florida got to that point, and it’s an even worse shame that he put the deputy in a position where the deputy had no choice, in my book, but to kill him. I wish it were otherwise, and I hope it doesn’t take too long for the deputy to come to terms with an awful situation. Again my sympathies go out to him, as well as to the friends and family of that kid. What I tried to say is that suicides by cop in my experience do know what they’re doing, even if they may not be fully rational, and their own death is what they want at that time. They may not be capable of doing the deed themselves, and it is a cowardly act to have someone else do it. It can also be a desperate act when you think you’ve dug yourself so deep there’s no way out but death. As for me, I’ve dug myself in deep enough tonight. I’ll put the shovel down and try to climb out of this hole. No doubt I’ll regret this in the morning, but I knew that before I posted earlier. As I said, I can be stupid sometimes. CJ ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/95 "2006-01-18T00:35:39Z")
> [@Thalion](#): > > No, they simply don’t stop everyone. I’ve seen plenty of training videos of people being shot with bean bags, batons, pepper spray, mace, fire hoses and Tasers that just keep fighting. And in a case like this, all the fight it takes is for the suspect to pull a trigger. I would be seriously impressed with someone that could take a hit from a couple bean bags or a Taser and have not only the will but the ability to continue fighting. I would be even more impressed if they had the ability to get anything resembling an aimed shot off. > [@Thalion](#): > > When the less-lethal is deployed, that person **always** has someone with lethal force available right with him. Even if there was a deputy right there with a less-lethal weapon, when the kid pointed the gun the less-lethal guy would hit the ground while the deputy takes the shot. Just becuase thats the way it is doesn’t mean it is the way it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/96 "2006-01-18T01:30:40Z")
Just noted the kid painted the pellet gun’s safety orange tip to black so that it would be mistaken for a real gun. As an asside, are there any reports of people painting real guns to look like pellet guns, in order to confuse police action? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/97 "2006-01-18T01:49:34Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > In Canada, do they use question marks? 'Cause I thought I was asking questions, not making judgements. > [@levdrakon](#): > > I expect a SWAT member to protect his own ass by taking a covered position at the end of the hall, within view of the bathroom they’ve got the kid cornered in. It’s what I’d do, unless I was looking for a chance to off someone and be a hero. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Thalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@Thalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thalion)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/98 "2006-01-18T01:59:42Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I would be seriously impressed with someone that could take a hit from a couple bean bags or a Taser and have not only the will but the ability to continue fighting. I would be even more impressed if they had the ability to get anything resembling an aimed shot off. I’ll have to dig around and see what cites I can find online. I know I have training tapes at work that show this. The fact is, some people (due to size, dementia, drugs, whatever) can still act after being hit with less-lethal weapons. And it doesn’t require an “aimed shot” for the subject to do damage or kill someone. Just a random shot will do, if someone is unlucky enough to be in the line of fire. All that being said, I still agree that less-lethal should have been used if at all possible. I don’t know why it wasn’t, though I can imagine many scenarios that fit. But even if it had, once the kid took aim, the deputy was right to shoot him. Actually, I’m rather surprised that he wasn’t shot by multiple SWAT members. I’d be very interested to see the layout where this occurred. As someone else mentioned, I wonder if there was any cover for the deputy and why he had to be positioned (apparently) right in front of the bathroom door. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/99 "2006-01-18T02:58:28Z")
I know I said I was backing out of this thread for tonight and I meant it, but something occurred to me. This whole mess supposedly got started because the young man in question had broken up with his girl friend. If that’s the case, there’s probably a young woman down in Florida who’s carrying a lot of unneccessary guilt and pain because of this. If someone could spare a prayer or thought for her, that’d be a nice thing. Whoever she is, I hope she’s well looked after. CJ ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300/100 "2006-01-18T03:39:12Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > :dubious: That’s all you’ve got? Someone asks me if I believe SWAT members should “take one on the chin” and I respond “no, I expect them to take cover” and that’s armchair quarterbacking at its absolute worst? Ooh, foiled by smiley! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-family-of-that-kid-who-got-shot/340300.md?page=6)