# I pit the First Baptist Church of Crystal Springs, MS for not allowing a black couple to marry there **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688 "2012-07-28T16:24:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688/61 "2012-07-30T16:46:02Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Strangely enough, Fred Phelps was once best known as a champion of civil rights for blacks. > [Fred Phelps - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps#Civil_rights_cases) And I hear Hitler loved his dog… ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688/62 "2012-07-30T17:08:38Z")
> [@Big\_Norse](#): > > Yes, odds are good that there are racists in the congregation (but why allow the couple to attend the church at all?) but saying they were “against the black marriage” doesn’t absolutely mean they were against it because they are black, the sentence might (but probably wouldn’t) be continued: “they were against the black marriage… because the couple weren’t members of the church.” This is a big load. The article quotes the friggin’ pastor. If church membership was the issue, he would certainly have brought it up. I’m for giving as much benefit of the doubt as is reasonable. But this extends beyond reasonable to “I’ve got this nice bridge for sale”. ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Norse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/big_norse/32/9954_2.png) [@Big\_Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Norse)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688/63 "2012-07-30T20:35:19Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > This is a big load. > > The article quotes the friggin’ pastor. If church membership was the issue, he would certainly have brought it up. > > I’m for giving as much benefit of the doubt as is reasonable. But this extends beyond reasonable to “I’ve got this nice bridge for sale”. I’m not saying racists are necessarily logical but if you didn’t like a certain type of person isn’t it easier to just not allow them in your church? It’s not like churches have to abide by equality rules. You don’t have to go to someone else’s wedding, but if you let unwanted people attend services you have to see them when you attend. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688/64 "2012-07-30T21:38:19Z")
> [@Big\_Norse](#): > > I’m not saying racists are necessarily logical but if you didn’t like a certain type of person isn’t it easier to just not allow them in your church? It’s not like churches have to abide by equality rules. You don’t have to go to someone else’s wedding, but if you let unwanted people attend services you have to see them when you attend. But it’s actually pretty hard to keep someone from attending your church. And even harder if you want to keep up some veneer of Christianity. And I’d give Bob Mack (the apologizing church member) the benefit of the doubt - not every Baptist in MS is an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688/65 "2012-07-30T22:21:47Z")
Could the church have sidestepped the whole issue by saying “members only”? Sure. But that’s not what they did. They did everything except print an ad in the newspaper saying, “We didn’t want black people marrying in our church.” Maybe they were a vocal minority as some have claimed, but there’s absolutely no doubt the primary reason the couple was refused was racism. Members of the church itself left no room for doubt on that. So, what’s the point you’re trying to make? That the same thing could have happened elsewhere with a more benign explanation? Why would that matter for this particular case? I’ve got no problems with using racism as an explanation when the racists involved themselves admit it. ---
**Author:** ![OtisCampbellWasRight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@OtisCampbellWasRight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtisCampbellWasRight)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688/66 "2012-07-31T14:44:26Z")
I think the racism at play here is pretty clear cut. The other part of this story probably comes down to money. Many churches have two different stipends (rates) for performing weddings in their santuaries; one for members and a higher one for non. The racists may have been OK with these people attending their worship service, thus putting money in the collection plate, but took a dim view of them actually becoming card-carrying MEMBERS of the congregation. Very poor (shameful) Christian behavior on all counts. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688/67 "2012-08-08T06:15:01Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > What I still don’t get is why the couple wanted the same pastor to still marry them. Updates. Apparently, Rev Weatherford is a friend of the bride’s family. Which is why the couple had originally started attending the church and had asked him to perform the ceremony. Rev Weatherford did perform the ceremony (at another church) and has attended a public support rally for the Wilsons. So it appears he wasn’t the source of this foolishness. The First Baptist Church of Crystal Springs has issued an apology, although they did a half-assed job of it. The apology was sent to the media rather than the couple. They said they were told about the apology via reporters. And there does seem to be an air of _mistakes were made/everybody’s human/wow, who knew this would be such a big deal?/let’s move on_ in the apology. [News article](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/wedding-banned_n_1747837.html) [Text of the apology](http://www.wlbt.com/story/19207214/first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-apology) ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688/68 "2012-08-08T11:13:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So it appears he wasn’t the source of this foolishness. Not the source, but nonetheless spineless. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688/69 "2012-08-10T01:11:49Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Not the source, but nonetheless spineless. Agreed. In fact, I’m increasingly of the opinion that people who don’t try to stop something aren’t really against it–they just say they are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-baptist-church-of-crystal-springs-ms-for-not-allowing-a-black-couple-to-marry-there/629688.md?page=3)