# I Pit the First Gitmo Kangaroo Court Verdict **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2007, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193 "2007-03-31T06:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/21 "2007-03-31T15:44:46Z")
[QUOTE=Rufus Xavier] Hmmmm. Parody? Perhaps. See here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8403430&postcount=5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8403430&postcount=5) [/QUOTE] pro’lly. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/22 "2007-03-31T15:55:23Z")
**Sublight** , that is the weirdest point I’ve heard made on any given subject for quite some time. To paraphrase\* Macbeth, " full of sound and fury, signifying nothing". \*“Idiot” part omitted because I think you’re a decent person. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/23 "2007-03-31T16:27:43Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] I’ve never heard of a restriction on talking to the media. [/QUOTE] Well, perhaps he can work around that restriction. For example, many Americans argue that flag desecration is not “speech.” So maybe Hicks could adopt the same sort of binary response system that Captain Pike used in _Star Trek_, and answer media questions by burning one American flag for “yes” and two for “no.” ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/24 "2007-03-31T16:36:29Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] or at very least the suspended part of the sentence would be reimposed. [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t an Australian court have to rule on this issue? And couldn’t it (shouldn’t it?) void the sentence on the basis that there was nohing ressembling to due process leading to it? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/25 "2007-03-31T16:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=clairobscur] Wouldn’t an Australian court have to rule on this issue? And couldn’t it (shouldn’t it?) void the sentence on the basis that there was nohing ressembling to due process leading to it? [/QUOTE] You’re probably right. I don’t know what the legal mechanisms are for enforcing an agreement of this type across international boundaries. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/26 "2007-03-31T16:50:00Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] That would be a mistake. If he violates the terms of his plea bargain, they can reinstate the original charges. Australia is a U.S. ally and would likely hand him over on request. [/QUOTE] From what I’ve heard about public opinion in Australia WRT this case, that would be a **very** unpopular decision. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/27 "2007-03-31T17:11:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] From what I’ve heard about public opinion in Australia WRT this case, that would be a **very** unpopular decision. [/QUOTE] Hell, I’d be willing to call it an unjust decision. Still think it would happen, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/28 "2007-03-31T17:54:16Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] Well, perhaps he can work around that restriction. For example, many Americans argue that flag desecration is not “speech.” So maybe Hicks could adopt the same sort of binary response system that Captain Pike used in _Star Trek_, and answer media questions by burning one American flag for “yes” and two for “no.” [/QUOTE] “Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.” " ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/29 "2007-03-31T18:07:39Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] “Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.” " [/QUOTE] For Hicks, it’s more a case of “Shaka, when the walls fell.” (Great episode; i saw it again just last week) ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/30 "2007-03-31T18:32:37Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] For Hicks, it’s more a case of “Shaka, when the walls fell.” (Great episode; i saw it again just last week) [/QUOTE] Or “G’Kar in the Centauri Dungeon.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/31 "2007-03-31T18:39:47Z")
Could [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/30/AR2007033002246.html?hpid=topnews) sort of thing be why they don’t want Hicks talking? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/32 "2007-03-31T19:03:35Z")
Unlikely, that would put the US in ambiguous moral territory, while as we all know, America is always wrong, and the potential terrorists are to be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/33 "2007-03-31T19:06:16Z")
My feeling is that this plea says absolutely nothing about the defendant, but speaks volumes about the government that held him. [QUOTE=Hamlet] I don’t think it is a bullshit plea. I think he’s guilty. I think he was a low level soldier in Al Qaeda, and I think the evidence supports that conclusion. I have major problems with how the case was handled, the ex post facto issue, and the whole jurisdiction issue, not to mention the remainer of the uncharged detainees. But I think the plea wasn’t bullshit. [/QUOTE] When even the pretense of due process has been systematically eliminated, the only hope of any defendant is to say ANYTHING they are told to by TPTB. Am I exagerating when I say that, at best, Gitmo detainees face the following: “You are presumed guilty. Neither you, nor your counsel are entitled to review any of the evidence aginst you, nor any of the witnesses. You are not entitled to call any witnesses for your defense, and all evidence you seek will be declared classified and denied you. When you are found guilty, you will never be released. If you plead guilty, you might eventually be released. Do you want to plead guilty or be found guilty in a tribunal where you are not allowed to defend yourself?” Under such circumstance, how can ANY plea not be bullshit? How do you square your belief that he is guilty with the acknowledged ex post facto issue? How could any legitimate court accept a guilty plea with the full knowledge that, from a time well prior to the enactment of the law, the defendant was incarcerated and incapable of committing any such crime? Recall that Lynndie England’s plea was rejected because she said (paraphrasing) “I didn’t do anything wrong, but I’ve been screwed over, and this is the best deal I’m going to get, so whatever.” The only way to reconcile such rulings is to acknowledge the fact that one court was military, and the other marsupial. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/34 "2007-03-31T19:38:36Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] Unlikely, that would put the US in ambiguous moral territory, while as we all know, America is always wrong, and the potential terrorists are to be trusted. [/QUOTE] Potential Terrorist != Terrorist. Potential Terrorist = meaningless term. You are as much a “potential terrorist” as anyone else, Gitmo detainees included. Don’t take offense, it means only that you can fog a mirror…or maybe not even that. I’m sure that if this administration thought that one additional mouthbreathing moron of a voter could be swayed to vote for a republican, they’d be declaring whole grave yards full of corpses to be “potential terrorists” exhuming them, and shipping them off to Cuba for our safety. I am so fucking sick and tired of such crap. Holding them without charges, as “suspected terrorists” because [QUOTE= Dubya and Gonzo] [whiney voice] Doing our job is tooooooooooo haaaaaaaaaaard, and the evidence is a biiiiig seeeeeecret, and they miiiiiiiight be releeeeeeeased, and hurt someooooooone, and why do you hate america? [/wv] [/QUOTE] is bullshit, pure and simple. If our leaders have good reason to believe these folks are terrorists, then let them present those reasons and prove it. Put up or shut up in other words. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/35 "2007-03-31T21:25:57Z")
Well, if it’s any consolation, in one _more_ year we ought to have a decent idea about what Mr. Hicks suffered in terms of his detention. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/36 "2007-03-31T21:55:33Z")
I am amazed about how with that deal the US has managed to change many people’s perception of Mr. Hicks’ allegations of abuse from “well he would say that, wouldn’t he?” to “there must be something to it, or they wouldn’t have pressured him to recant”. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/37 "2007-03-31T22:58:32Z")
[QUOTE=Kevbo] How do you square your belief that he is guilty with the acknowledged ex post facto issue? [/QUOTE] Because I’m using guilt in the broader sense of working with, aiding and abetting, and ` How could any legitimate court accept a guilty plea with the full knowledge that, from a time well prior to the enactment of the law, the defendant was incarcerated and incapable of committing any such crime? Recall that Lynndie England’s plea was rejected because she said (paraphrasing) “I didn’t do anything wrong, but I’ve been screwed over, and this is the best deal I’m going to get, so whatever.” The only way to reconcile such rulings is to acknowledge the fact that one court was military, and the other marsupial. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/38 "2007-03-31T23:43:10Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] **Sublight** , that is the weirdest point I’ve heard made on any given subject for quite some time. To paraphrase\* Macbeth, " full of sound and fury, signifying nothing". [/QUOTE] The only thing that could make it weirder would be if it were said in all [seriousness.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8403430&postcount=5) Anyway, I meant to stick around and follow up sooner, but ended up going to bed instead. Sorry if there was any confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Elsie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b2d939/32.png) [@Elsie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elsie)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/39 "2007-04-01T00:59:16Z")
I didn’t realise convicts were still sent to Australia\*. \*meowwwwww ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193/40 "2007-04-01T01:20:02Z")
[QUOTE=Elsie] I didn’t realise convicts were still sent to Australia\*. [/QUOTE] Big Barney Fitch God suddenly rich Got a big fancy house in Melbourne With buckets of loot And big black leather boots Acting so haughty and wellborn But we of Australia Are children of convicts And some of us wear it quite proudly So when he rides by In his carriage so fine I wave and I call to him loudly: "Was your grandma a whore? "Was your grandpa a thief? "Were they forgers and grafters "Who fell to their grief? "If you’re born of Australia, "I know who you be! "You’re the son of a son of a “Scoundrel like me!” By [Shel Silverstein.](http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/sonofasc.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-first-gitmo-kangaroo-court-verdict/398193.md?page=3)