# I pit “The Gifts of Hope” **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332 "2012-12-07T19:21:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/41 "2012-12-09T05:56:21Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > They are really a so-so charity at best, according to some of the websites that rate charities. > > And there are problems with their programs: > > [Why Heifer International is Rolling in Dung - CounterPunch.org](http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/07/12/why-heifer-international-is-rolling-in-dung/) From your link: > [@](#): > > Then there’s Heifer International’s Global Village program in Perryville, AK where school kids who vote that they want meat for dinner will witness the teacher break a rabbit’s neck, chop off its head, skin it and cook it. > > Last year one unidentified mother emailed Arkansas’ Fox 16 TV station to say her son still talks about hearing the rabbit scream as its neck was broken when he attended a Global Village as a 5th grader. Huh. I did that as a kid about that age. We were dirt-poor, so grew much of our food in our garden. Among other things, my job was to shoot, skin, and cook the rabbits that got into the garden. Once, I had to break a bunny’s neck to finish it off. I still ate it. It was delicious. While I’m not really feeling much sympathy for that kid, it _is_ rather astonishingly dickish and cruel to do that in front of kids who _didn’t_ grow up killing their own food. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/42 "2012-12-09T06:19:24Z")
> [@flatlined](#): > > Bill bought me a cow. He has also bought me litter boxes for Christmas and has donated heavily to my rescue group in my name. I thought that these were wonderful gifts because he talked to me about it we agreed that I’d like a cow more than I wanted some books. > > The important part is that he talked to me about it. Had he sent money to a cause I didn’t support, it would be like getting a nicely wrapped iron. > > Gifts are supposed to be something that makes the recipient happy, not the giver. Or at least, that’s how I feel. (and yes, I do feel happy when giving a gift, but I’m even happier when I get squeels of joy over it.) I agree, if you both picked it out and agreed, then it can be a “gift”. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/43 "2012-12-09T06:33:24Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > If each person simply received what they would have bought for themselves, I’d count that rather a shame. We should aim for better than that. Get me something I _wouldn’t_ have found or thought to get for myself. As an adult I can’t remember that ever happening, if it was something I needed I would have found it, if I don’t need it then what is the point? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/44 "2012-12-09T06:53:34Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > … > Apparently some family, somewhere in the world, is getting a goddamn sheep in my name this year. > > I so fucking well blame you people for somehow putting her up to this. You’re such a fucking Scrooge. “_Baaaaah_, humbug!” 😃 > [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > > > I’ll just get my kid his _own_ beehive, thank you. > > Mine can have a wasp nest and like it. I think I can get a few of those for you from my shed. I’ll send them to you for only $10 each, plus shipping… BTW, does anyone know if UPS accepts live wasps? I’ll tape it up really well. :D[sup]2[/sup] On a more relevant note: > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > > [@Peremensoe](#): > > > > If each person simply received what they would have bought for themselves, I’d count that rather a shame. We should aim for better than that. Get me something I _wouldn’t_ have found or thought to get for myself. > > As an adult I can’t remember that ever happening, if it was something I needed I would have found it, if I don’t need it then what is the point? One of the best Christmas gifts I’ve ever gotten was when I saw an infomercial for a cute kitchen gadget while at my parents’ house, and I said “that looks like fun, but not at _that_ price!” My mother got it for me. IIRC, it was called “Salad Shooter”. It _was_ fun. I used it for _months_ before it inevitably died its cheap, crappy, ‘made in China’ death. I think _that_ was **Peremensoe** ’s point. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/45 "2012-12-09T07:17:18Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > One of the best Christmas gifts I’ve ever gotten was when I saw an infomercial for a cute kitchen gadget while at my parents’ house, and I said “that looks like fun, but not at _that_ price!” My mother got it for me. IIRC, it was called “Salad Shooter”. It _was_ fun. I used it for _months_ before it inevitably died its cheap, crappy, ‘made in China’ death. I think _that_ was **Peremensoe** ’s point. But my point is that if you feel obligated to reciprocate then you _have_ bought it at “that” price anyway. If they expect no gift in return then yes, you are indeed in luck and ahead on the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/46 "2012-12-09T08:48:34Z")
I just dropped $200 on charity gifts from [these folks](http://www.tear.org.au) and I think your pitting is lame. For starters, if you get a charity gift from me, it means you weren’t getting a christmas present anyway. None of my seven charity gifts are instead of a christmas present - they’re instead of a christmas _card_. And hey, you get a card as part of the whole shebang, so win-win! Secondly, it doesn’t mean you don’t put any thought into it. All my cards are tailored to their recipient - my father in law who raises goats, is getting a goat, my midwife sister-in-law is getting a women and family’s health worker, and so on and so on. Our family rule is “no christmas presents to adults” (there’s seventeen of us round the table every year, and that’s just “kinda-nuclear” family, not counting the extended family gatherings which run to 40+ each) and this fits very nicely. If you’ve gotten charity gifts you didn’t want, don’t pit the organisations who sell them. It’s just that your family and friends are rotten pickers. They probably would have got you socks as the second option. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/47 "2012-12-09T09:05:17Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > I think I can get a few of those for you from my shed. I’ll send them to you for only $10 each, plus shipping… BTW, does anyone know if UPS accepts live wasps? I’ll tape it up really well. Thanks, but it’s becoming a tradition to make a treasure hunt out of them finding it. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/48 "2012-12-09T18:06:59Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Anything that drives us further from the concept of holiday gift giving is fine by me. > > I don’t particularly like giving or receiving gifts. If I want something I’ll buy it. If you buy me something for £20 and I feel obliged to reciprocate then exactly where does that leave us? Both £20 poorer and with only a slim chance that gift we got is what I would actually choose to buy with my own money (which is, in effect, what I’ve done) > > Sod that, > > I severely limit the toys bought for my two little ones as well because they already have far more then they can give brain-space to. We set a budget of £150 for both of them together and that seems perfectly adequate (and to be honest this year we are pushed to think of what to get them, given that they already have so much crap). > > If the whole world decided “no more holiday gifts and and we all donate to charities of our choice” then I’d be very happy indeed. I’m with you. I don’t stiff my kids out of gifts and give to charity instead, however. But grown ups, who have everything they really need and most affordable things they want? Those I stiff regularly for sheep. And my kids have never gotten too much (and somehow, they still always had too much to play with by the time Santa, Grandmas, Aunts, Uncles, Mom and Dad all gave gifts.) A charitable contribution is better than toe socks. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/49 "2012-12-09T18:22:06Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > For starters, if you get a charity gift from me, it means you weren’t getting a christmas present anyway. None of my seven charity gifts are instead of a christmas present - they’re instead of a christmas _card_. . But, there’s no “gift” to the giftees. You bought yourself a gift, felt all noble and warm for doing a good deed, and now you want to brag about buying yourself a warm feeling in your card? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/50 "2012-12-09T18:26:46Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I’m with you. > > I don’t stiff my kids out of gifts and give to charity instead, however. But grown ups, who have everything they really need and most affordable things they want? Those I stiff regularly for sheep. And my kids have never gotten too much (and somehow, they still always had too much to play with by the time Santa, Grandmas, Aunts, Uncles, Mom and Dad all gave gifts.) A charitable contribution is better than toe socks. Indeed, you do “stiff” them, and that’s my point. I have no problem with not giving gifts. I have no problem with toe socks, even. And I have no problem with donations, in fact I think they are a nigh required part of civilized life. But when you donate to a charity, you are not doing it for them, you are doing it for yourself. Donate all you want, but it is not a “gift”. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/51 "2012-12-09T19:05:17Z")
When you die, I’m sending a Hickory Farms sausage sampler to your funeral instead of making a donation to a charity. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/52 "2012-12-10T02:20:09Z")
My friends would say that is very appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/53 "2012-12-10T04:48:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But, there’s no “gift” to the giftees. You bought yourself a gift, felt all noble and warm for doing a good deed, and now you want to brag about buying yourself a warm feeling in your card? I disgree. There are some people, and I happen to be one of them, that actually love the gift of a charitable donation made in their honor rather than a collectable nicknack or another sweater. It makes us feel happy that money is being used for a higher purpose than our brief pleasure during the holidays. I tell people to pick something through Alternative Gifts International, donate to Planned Parenthood or give to the local public library instead of gifting me during the holidays. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/54 "2012-12-10T20:24:44Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I disgree. There are some people, and I happen to be one of them, that actually love the gift of a charitable donation made in their honor rather than a collectable nicknack or another sweater. It makes us feel happy that money is being used for a higher purpose than our brief pleasure during the holidays. I tell people to pick something through Alternative Gifts International, donate to Planned Parenthood or give to the local public library instead of gifting me during the holidays. That’s fine. You are asking that a donation be made to a charity **instead** of getting you a gift. Good for you! A lot of money certainly does get wasted on gifts this time of year that could be much better spent on charitable donations. The issue the OP is talking about is calling a donation to charity a gift to someone (yes, it’s a gift to the actual charity in question, but I’m referring to the person you are supposedly “giving” the “gift” to), particularly if the person you are giving the “gift” to did not tell you to make the donation to charity in place of a gift. It’s not a question of not being charitable. It’s not a question of “screw those people in Africa, I want presents for me!”. It’s not a question of being a Scrooge. It’s simply a question of being honest about what it really is - a donation to charity instead of a gift. ---
**Author:** ![Nerdessence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@Nerdessence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nerdessence)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/55 "2012-12-10T20:49:04Z")
One of my husband’s obscure relatives did this for our wedding. We got a card saying X had bought a goat or some other animal in our name. We were baffled. Neither of us gives to global charities. We do local charities, mainly to animal shelters or Disaster of the Moment funds. It didn’t feel like a gift, I didn’t feel warm or moved. I was confused mostly. We still laugh about it every time the organization sends -us- a card to donate. No thanks. Even a gift card is more relevant and thoughtful. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/56 "2012-12-10T20:50:34Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > That’s fine. You are asking that a donation be made to a charity **instead** of getting you a gift. Good for you! A lot of money certainly does get wasted on gifts this time of year that could be much better spent on charitable donations. > > The issue the OP is talking about is calling a donation to charity a gift to someone (yes, it’s a gift to the actual charity in question, but I’m referring to the person you are supposedly “giving” the “gift” to), particularly if the person you are giving the “gift” to did not tell you to make the donation to charity in place of a gift. > > It’s not a question of not being charitable. It’s not a question of “screw those people in Africa, I want presents for me!”. It’s not a question of being a Scrooge. It’s simply a question of being honest about what it really is - a donation to charity instead of a gift. Exactly. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/57 "2012-12-10T21:13:13Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > That’s fine. You are asking that a donation be made to a charity **instead** of getting you a gift. Good for you! A lot of money certainly does get wasted on gifts this time of year that could be much better spent on charitable donations. > > The issue the OP is talking about is calling a donation to charity a gift to someone (yes, it’s a gift to the actual charity in question, but I’m referring to the person you are supposedly “giving” the “gift” to), particularly if the person you are giving the “gift” to did not tell you to make the donation to charity in place of a gift. > > It’s not a question of not being charitable. It’s not a question of “screw those people in Africa, I want presents for me!”. It’s not a question of being a Scrooge. It’s simply a question of being honest about what it really is - a donation to charity instead of a gift. No, the donation is a gift. Gifts do not have to be something that materially or monetarily enricesh someone to be gifts or to be of great value. Making a donation in my honor contributes to my feeling of harmony and peace at the holidays. By giving them my family and friends choose to put aside their delight in shopping (and some of them are hard-core shopaholics) and spend the money they have set aside for spending on ZPG and using it in the manner most beloved to me. Their gift is choosing what I would like not what they would like me to have. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/58 "2012-12-10T23:17:21Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Their gift is choosing what I would like not what they would like me to have. Exactly - they chose something appropriate to you, which is indeed a gift. If someone made a donation in your name to an adoption agency, that would not be a gift. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/59 "2012-12-11T00:40:18Z")
Ah, encouraging people to help the needy. Always pitworthy. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332/60 "2012-12-11T01:10:56Z")
So what’s the thank you etiquette here? When someone donates $5 to the school scholarship fund in my name, am I supposed to write them a thank you note? Because that seems really odd to me 'Dear so-and-so. Thank you for the generous donation to the school scholarship fund in my name. When your child is applying for a scholarship from that same fund come April, I hope that the 500-word recommendation letter I spent an hour writing for them will come in handy. I am sure that that little extra money will really come in handy with all those college bills, and they worked hard and no doubt deserve it." Or a kid “Dear grandma. Thank you for giving a poor family a goat from me for Christmas. I am sure that they will really enjoy the milk and, someday, stew.” In writing the thank you, the person in the middle switches from being the proxy giver to the proxy receiver. It’s weird. I guess what galls me here is it really seems like missing the point. YES, we give too many pointless gifts and too little to charity. If someone I knew were to announce 'This year we are not giving any gifts and donating what we would have spent on gifts to a selection of charities" I would applaud that. I would love–love–to see a campaign promoting that. “Don’t give Johnny another toy, give a poor family a goat” sounds great. “Don’t give Johnny a toy, give him a nominal role in a poor family getting a goat” doesn’t even make sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-gifts-of-hope/643332.md?page=4)