# I pit the guy that's winning the Celebrity Death Pool (pretty lame.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 4, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711 "2005-10-04T06:52:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Trillionaire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@Trillionaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trillionaire)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/1 "2005-10-04T06:52:13Z")
I guess most of you are familiar with it, but for anyone who’s not, [here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289505&page=1&pp=50) a link to it. Before the start of the year, anyone who wants to play submits a list of 13 celebrities who they think will die during that year. They score points if their celebrity dies, and the points are collated by **a35362** (who does an admirable job incidentally 🙂 ) The pool this year is pretty certain to be won by a Doper by the name of **Rachm Qoch**. He is known as the Grim Reaper by a lot of people in the pool, but to my mind he isn’t really playing in the spirit of things. See what you think: here is his list of “celebrities”, with his descriptions in bold, and a few more notes as I could find them: **1.Pope John Paul II (Holy Father):** No qualms with this one, it was the most popular pick in the pool this year (and represents my only points so far by the way.) **2. Larry David Norman (Godfather of Christian Rock):** Severely injured in airplane accident in 1978. Suffered severe heart attack in 1992. Still hanging on by the looks of things. **3. Father Barry Ryan (Bad, Bad Father):** Priest from NY who was found guilty in 2004 of molesting a six year old boy. Doesn’t appear to have done anything else to warrant the title “celebrity.” Has terminal liver cancer. **4. Gene Scott (Christian Televangelist):** Died in February after a four year battle with late-treated prostate cancer. **5. Tammie Faye Bakker Messner (Christian Televangelist, Surrealist):** Diagnosed in 2004 with inoperable lung cancer. **6. Louis Rukeyser (Finacial Televangelist)** Has cancer, which has prevented him appearing on TV since 2004. \*\*7. Terri Schiavo (Catholic, ACLU Crosshairs): \*\* in a persistent vegetative state since the 1990s. Died when her feeding tube was controversially removed in March. **8. Yon Hyong Muk (Commie Korean Commander):** Currently receiving treatment for pancreatic cancer \*\*9. Norodom Sihanouk (King of Cambodia): \*\* Controversial leader but not sick as far as I can tell. **10. Abdul Aziz al-Hakim (Could-be Iraqi Chief.):** Also makes the list despite not apparently being sick, however he replaced Mohammed Bakir al-Hakim as leader of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq when the latter was assassinated in August 2003. **11. William Rehnquist (Chief Justice):** Died September 2005 after a long battle with thyroid cancer. **12. Jack Chalker (SF Writer):** Hospitalised in late 2004 and diagnosed with congestive heart failure. Spent several weeks in a deteriorating condition before dying in February. **13. James Doohan (SF Actor):** (“Scotty” in Star Trek) Suffered Parkinson’s disease, diabetes and lung fibrosis. Died in July aged 85. Now bear in mind that there aren’t really any rules on who can and can’t be chosen, or even what constitutes a celebrity. **Rachm** has played the game to the letter of the law. But seriously, how many of them have you heard of? A few random Christian televangelists? An aide to Kim-Jong-Il (who doesn’t even warrant a wikipedia entry?) A catholic priest with terminal cancer, whose only claim to “celebrity” is pleading guilty to the molestation of a young boy? Maybe they are celebrities in some corners of the world, but I think if this pool is going to have any staying power I think it is going to need a few more rules about who can be chosen, and I think that people who no-one has heard of should be off-limits, especially if they have terminal illnesses. And yeah, I probably wouldn’t be whinging if more of my choices had carked it, (and I also probably could have found something more worthwhile to spend my first pit thread on.) For the record, here’s my list. Not the healthiest bunch, and not a list that’s netted me many points, but I at least guarantee that you’ve heard of most of them: Meatloaf Ringo Starr Pope John Paul 2 Keith Richards Gerald Ford Sharon Osbourne Yogi Berra Phyllis Dilller Zsa Zsa Gabor Ed McMahon Pete Rose Charles Manson JD Salinger ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/2 "2005-10-04T07:01:01Z")
You’ve got some cause for complaint, I think. I always think about playing that game, but I think I’d feel terrible for doing it- and I’m sure I’d feel even worse if I was ever correct. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/3 "2005-10-04T08:34:47Z")
So wait a minute… you’re complaining there are some people on his list you’ve never heard of … who aren’t dead? I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![robotic\_panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed8c4c/32.png) [@robotic\_panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robotic_panda)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/4 "2005-10-04T09:24:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’ve got some cause for complaint, I think. I always think about playing that game, but I think I’d feel terrible for doing it- and I’m sure I’d feel even worse if I was ever correct. Agreed, 100%. I don’t do the death pools. But, I think the OP’s pit is that if you count anyone who is famous to anybody, then anyone can come up with 10 soon-to-die “celebrities”. Isn’t that the point of it though? Who is supposed to keep track of who knows what famous person? You can put down whoever, I can call bullshit, but if other people know who they are, doesn’t that make them famous? I dunno, maybe they need new rules for it, but the dude you pit seems to be playing by the current ones. I say, suck it up, and study up on terminally ill celebrities for next year. (I hear one half of Bennifer has a breast lump! Guess which ooooone! 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/5 "2005-10-04T10:31:13Z")
> [@robotic\_panda](#): > > (I hear one half of Bennifer has a breast lump! Guess which ooooone! 😉 ) Bennifer? There is no Bennifer. Both of those parties are now married to other partners. Boy are you out of the celebrity loop. Anyways, I agree with the OP. I could argue that my local councillor is “famous” because he was on TV once, even though nobody else on the entire SDMB will have heard of him. That doesn’t seem right. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/6 "2005-10-04T10:47:31Z")
You’re pitting the guy because he could be bothered to do better research than the rest of us? That is pretty lame. I think the only qualification for someone being a celebrity is that their death would be liable to be reported in a media story that could be linked for confirmation. You may not have heard of the King of Cambodia, but I’m sure most Cambodians have. For the record I have no idea, of the top of my head, who Phyllis Dilller, Ed McMahon or Pete Rose are. Yogi Berra, name rings a bell but just can’t place it… ---
**Author:** ![robotic\_panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed8c4c/32.png) [@robotic\_panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robotic_panda)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/7 "2005-10-04T10:54:24Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Bennifer? There is no Bennifer. Both of those parties are now married to other partners. Boy are you out of the celebrity loop. Holy duh Batman, Ben married someone not named Jennifer?? Celebrity loop my ass! 😃 (Not literally of course) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/8 "2005-10-04T11:01:53Z")
But that’s not Bennifer. That’s Daredevil and Elektra. ---
**Author:** ![robotic\_panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed8c4c/32.png) [@robotic\_panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robotic_panda)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/9 "2005-10-04T11:04:20Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > But that’s not Bennifer. That’s Daredevil and Elektra. Darelektra. Gotcha. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/10 "2005-10-04T12:27:52Z")
If the CDP had another rule about only people who everyone on the planet knows can be put on the list, it would be very hard to find 13 nominees. Even if the rule was that every Doper had to know who there were. I’m starting a list of obscure theatre people for my 2006 list. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/11 "2005-10-04T12:47:21Z")
I thought that with death pools, the usual qualifier was that their death had to make the AP wire (or UPI or Reuters or something). Anyway, if you don’t have a provision like that when the thing is started, then you might as well put your grandma on it. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/12 "2005-10-04T13:13:48Z")
> [@robotic\_panda](#): > > Darelektra. Gotcha. 😉 That sort of sounds like a homeless superhero. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/13 "2005-10-04T13:14:16Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > But that’s not Bennifer. That’s Daredevil and Elektra. Uh, Bennifer II. Let’s get it straight, people. 😉 –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/14 "2005-10-04T13:26:51Z")
Two possible issues here: what is a “celebrity”, and should there be any restriction on picking people who have been diagnosed with a terminal disease? Most death pools have some type of requirement that the people picked be “public figures”, so that you can’t pick friends or relatives known to you personally. **a35362** only says that they should be “celebrities”. Some pools require that people “be famous for something besides being sick”, so that you can’t pick telethon poster children or disaster victims in comas or the like. I think such a rule is a good idea, and the Terry Schiavo pick would have run afoul of such a rule if we had it. Other than Schiavo, the only questionable pick that I see on **Rachm Qoch** ’s list is Barry Ryan. I doubt that he’s known to **Rachm Qoch** personally, but he’s so obscure that I question whether he’s a public figure or celebrity of any kind. The others look completely legitimate. The second issue is whether there should be restrictions on picking people suffering from terminal illness. In my real-life Death Pool, I once had a rule that you can’t pick anybody suffering from an illness with a specific prognosis of death within the next 12 months. I disqualified a pick of Warren Zevon on that basis, because news stories in late 2002 reported that he had “three months to live”. It turned out he lived nine, but he still died in 2003 and his pick would have won the pool if I had allowed it. I eventually dropped this rule. Medical science has advanced to the point where doctors seldom make prognoses of death within a specific time, and when they do make them they’re often wrong. Most people picked in a Death Pool are going to be sick, and I don’t see any point to trying to restrict it. Bottom line, **Rachm Qoch** has done a bang-up job within the rules, but I question the pick of Ryan and would support a rule to bar picks like Schiavo (who was famous only for being sick). ---
**Author:** ![SleepyDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@SleepyDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleepyDuck)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/15 "2005-10-04T13:51:19Z")
If it makes you feel any better, the folks at [stiffs.com](http://stiffs.com) would only recognize 6 of his list as “famous”. [link](https://secure3.other-world.com/stiffs/kpr.html) ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/16 "2005-10-04T14:11:17Z")
> [@Avenger](#): > > You’re pitting the guy because he could be bothered to do better research than the rest of us? That is pretty lame. > > I think the only qualification for someone being a celebrity is that their death would be liable to be reported in a media story that could be linked for confirmation. You may not have heard of the King of Cambodia, but I’m sure most Cambodians have. > > For the record I have no idea, of the top of my head, who Phyllis Dilller, Ed McMahon or Pete Rose are. Yogi Berra, name rings a bell but just can’t place it… [Phyllis Diller, comedienne.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jimpoz.com/quotes/images/speakers/diller.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.jimpoz.com/quotes/speaker.asp%3Fspeakerid%3D345&h=200&w=150&sz=12&tbnid=SKSxePrhsTEJ:&tbnh=99&tbnw=74&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphyllis%2Bdiller%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D&oi=imagesr&start=3) [Ed McMahon - sidekick to Johnny Carson for thirty years, and host of Star Search.](http://www.time.com/time/community/transcripts/chattr101998.html) [Pete Rose, infamous baseball player, who was accused of gambling on games.](http://www.peterose.com/) [Yogi Berra, one of the best known names in baseball.](http://www.yogi-berra.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/17 "2005-10-04T16:00:03Z")
[This rule](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=147316&page=1&highlight=celebrity+death+pool) was added to the 2003 pool, but has been missing from the most recent two pools. > [@a35362](#): > > Since “celebrity” is loosely defined…(m)y guess is that if major news media outlets report your death, you’re a celebrity for our purposes. Perhaps it can be added to the 2006 pool as well, with clarification of what “major news media outlet” means? Many local newspapers and some specialized publications can be linked, but that doesn’t necessarily make them “major.” ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/18 "2005-10-05T09:47:15Z")
> [@Dolores Reborn](#): > > [Pete Rose, infamous baseball player, who was accused of gambling on games.](http://www.peterose.com/) > > [Yogi Berra, one of the best known names in baseball.](http://www.yogi-berra.com/) Ahh, [rounders](http://www.roundersonline.net/), we used to play that at school in mixed games 😉 ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/19 "2005-10-05T11:33:52Z")
Well, we probably need a stiffs-type qualification of what is considered a celebrity… maybe a list of news orginazations of which one should report it… but I heard of 7 of his 13, so I won’t complain. Plus, it’s still october, and I went all-young this year for maximum points. If McCauley Culkin takes out an Olsen twin in a murder-suicide, or drug-fueled romp, I win. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711/20 "2005-10-05T12:06:17Z")
It seems that the **Grim Reaper** has all but disappeard from the DP and possibly Doperville. (Unless I am wrong.) I think one of the rules should be that regular appearances to the boards is mandatory. In contusion, I wish I picked Terry Schiavo. She seemed so obvious and the courts seems so waffling… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-guy-thats-winning-the-celebrity-death-pool-pretty-lame/324711.md?page=2)