# I Pit the Hatred of Hillary **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284 "2016-07-30T14:33:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/161 "2016-08-03T21:21:50Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The clip that you linked to was much more of a compilation of sorts, so it is hard to get a good idea of how quickly things moved, and how rushed things were, but we were talking about her exit from the plane, not the helicopter. (She took the helicopter from that base to two other bases in the area.) I have read excerpts from other who were there, and they remember the briefing of snipers before landing, they remember hillary being protected in a flak jacket, they remember being briefed that they may need to make a “beeline to the armored vehicles parked nearby.” > > Which is more likely, that, more than a decade later, she misremembered details of her exit, or that she decided to make up a lie that would be easy to disprove? > > Keep in mind, that in this thread, you have made the mistake of forgetting that we were talking about a plane, and only a few hours later, you remembered it as a helicopter. Was that a mistake, or were you coming up with a story out of whole cloth? I would be more inclined to assume it was a mistake, than a lie, why does hillary not get the same courtesy? I have to leave and don’t have time for an in depth study of her movements that day. I’ll have to do some research later. However the comedian Sinbad was along with them that day and he said no such thing as what she described ever happened, plus she herself never made the argument you’re making. So I’m going with my previous post for now. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/162 "2016-08-03T21:23:44Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Do you have a video of you holding, or otherwise touch a soggy, cardboard tube? I’m sure the answer is yes, but can we see it? I’m curious as to the radial width of your preferred tube to rectum ratio. Just how big can you stretch that thing anyway? Don’t be a hater, **Yoggy**. The tube was always for you guys. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/163 "2016-08-03T21:35:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I have to leave and don’t have time for an in depth study of her movements that day. I’ll have to do some research later. However the comedian Sinbad was along with them that day and he said no such thing as what she described ever happened, plus she herself never made the argument you’re making. So I’m going with my previous post for now. She said, “Now let me tell you what I can remember, OK — because what I was told was that we had to land a certain way and move quickly because of the threat of sniper fire. So I misspoke — I didn’t say that in my book or other times but if I said something that made it seem as though there was actual fire — that’s not what I was told. I was told we had to land a certain way, we had to have our bulletproof stuff on because of the threat of sniper fire. I was also told that the greeting ceremony had been moved away from the tarmac but that there was this 8-year-old girl and, I can’t, I can’t rush by her, I’ve got to at least greet her — so I greeted her, I took her stuff and then I left, now that’s my memory of it.” Which is pretty close to what I said. Sinbad, the comedian, was not briefed on the plane. Others who were briefed on the security situation, back her up that there were sniper threats and that there was a sense of danger to the situation. Do you still stand behind your statement that she was referring to leaving a helicopter, or do you admit your understandable mistake in remembering that she was exiting a plane? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/164 "2016-08-03T21:45:36Z")
She was clearly exiting a helicopter in the clip I posted. And clearly Sinbad would know if he and they were dodging bullets as they ran to their vehicles, briefing or no. (And speaking of the briefing, it probably occurred to her as she was being briefed that a story about ducking sniper fire would make for good campaign fodder). If you keep this stuff up I’m afraid I’m going to have to conclude you aren’t worth responding to. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/165 "2016-08-03T21:52:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > She was clearly exiting a helicopter in the clip I posted. And clearly Sinbad would know if he and they were dodging bullets as they ran to their vehicles, briefing or no. (And speaking of the briefing, it probably occurred to her as she was being briefed that a story about ducking sniper fire would make for good campaign fodder). > > If you keep this stuff up I’m afraid I’m going to have to conclude you aren’t worth responding to. She was exiting a helicopter in part of the clip you showed, sure, as part of the compilation of her visit. That is not what she landed in at the base that she was talking about. She landed in a C-17 at the base in the events that she was talking about. I only brought up your misstatement about the helicopter to show how easily mistakes can be made, are you really going to insist that it was a helicopter that she landed in at the base where the event in question took place rather than admit your error? Once again, you ignore the point that there was no sniper fire, but there was a briefing about the threat of sniper fire on the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/166 "2016-08-03T21:56:00Z")
No, I didn’t ignore it. I used it to posit that Hillary used it to construct a phony coming-under-fire story. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/167 "2016-08-03T22:04:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of the two statements – her actual one and my notional one – which is the more honest? And there you go again, making a big deal out of tautologies. Do you think parsing off-hand remarks for misplaced qualifiers or commas is the way to make progress in America? When you return from 7-Eleven and tell your wife they were out of swiss cheese, are you being as truthful as possible? No, to be as truthful as possible you’d have to mention the 19-year old girl you could hardly keep your eyes off, or your ogling the liquor section, or whatever. If Hillary had instead made a “perfectly honest” statement like your notional one, she might be _guilty of gross political incompetence_. In the present climate she has to watch her words carefully as the political operatives you admire will be happy to extract 10 seconds out of context and to flood the airwaves with it over and over and over. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/168 "2016-08-03T22:18:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, I didn’t ignore it. I used it to posit that Hillary used it to construct a phony coming-under-fire story. But you admit that you misremebered that the story that she told took place while exiting a plane, not a helicopter? Or do you still insist that you are correct in that it was a helicopter that this whole controversy revolves around? Anyway, I gotta go for the evening. Rejoin in the morn. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/169 "2016-08-04T04:21:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I disagree with “this day and age”, as I think politics has been a game of half truths since well before the founding of this country, so if you insist, I could go with “as honest as she is able to be, while being a politician in this world.” Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/170 "2016-08-04T04:44:09Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > And there you go again, making a big deal out of tautologies. Do you think parsing off-hand remarks for misplaced qualifiers or commas is the way to make progress in America? > > When you return from 7-Eleven and tell your wife they were out of swiss cheese, are you being as truthful as possible? No, to be as truthful as possible you’d have to mention the 19-year old girl you could hardly keep your eyes off, or your ogling the liquor section, or whatever. > > If Hillary had instead made a “perfectly honest” statement like your notional one, she might be _guilty of gross political incompetence_. In the present climate she has to watch her words carefully as the political operatives you admire will be happy to extract 10 seconds out of context and to flood the airwaves with it over and over and over. No tautology is involved. If you seriously need me to explain why a failure to discuss the liquor section of the store does not vitiate the honesty of “They were out of Swiss cheese,” let me know. But I will explain here why I believe it is valuable to correct hyperbole like “…as honest as she’s able to be.” “As honest as she’s able to be,” as used here does not come across as unambiguous hyperbole. The speaker is suggesting, literally, that the only instances of dishonesty from Secretary Clinton arise from complex situations which were imperfectly summarized by simple answers – that her attempts to communicate honestly were frustrated by the complexity of the factual framework. That’s not true. In fact, Secretary Clinton has lied in order to make herself look better than the truth would. That may well be a necessity of modern politics – or indeed of politics in any age – but it’s not correct to call that “as honest as [one] is able to be.” Again, I absolutely agree that her dishonesty pales when compared to Trump’s reckless disregard for the truth. But that does not entitle her to the benefit of “as honest as she’s able,” and I’m not willing to let that comment pass unremarked. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/171 "2016-08-04T12:38:52Z")
Have Clinton supporters recycled the [pro-Edwin Edwards bumper sticker](https://snarkypenguin.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/rad-duke-edwards-bumper-sticker.jpg) from his gubernatorial race against David Duke? ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/172 "2016-08-04T23:04:34Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Have Clinton supporters recycled the [pro-Edwin Edwards bumper sticker](https://snarkypenguin.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/rad-duke-edwards-bumper-sticker.jpg) from his gubernatorial race against David Duke? I have supported Hillary since 2008 yet I find that I suddenly need this sticker. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/173 "2016-08-05T00:38:34Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > You may not be sexist, but Trump is supported by a constituency that approves of his dog whistling over Muslims, immigrants, and African-Americans. It is perfectly reasonable to assume those who approve of these messages are also sexist and hate Clinton for the active political role she played starting with her time as First Lady. In fact, this sort of anger at Clinton or any other person for not properly fulfilling their presumed societal role is a classic observation in group prejudice. Wait wait wait. Just because you hate on Hillary doesn’t mean you a sexist anymore than hate on Obama necessarily implies racism. And anti-Clinton doesn’t mean pro-Trump. Your post makes some hasty generalizations. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/174 "2016-08-05T01:07:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Wait wait wait. Just because you hate on Hillary doesn’t mean you a sexist anymore than hate on Obama necessarily implies racism. And anti-Clinton doesn’t mean pro-Trump. Your post makes some hasty generalizations. Superficially your point seems logically valid. You remember enough elementary logic to realize it is false to reason All men are mortal Socrates is a man Therefore all mortals are named Socrates In the real world, your post shows you to be an idiot. We’ve talked a lot about about Hillary in this thread so let’s discuss Obama for a moment. Why exactly do you imagine non-racists _ **hate** _ Obama? Some idiots hate Obama because he’s the “Teleprompter President.” He’s one of the most articulate and most intelligent Presidents we’ve had in a very long while but he … needs a teleprompter. He uses pauses effectively in his speech … because he’s a stuttering idiot. He got a law degree _magna cum laude_ from Harvard (and was President of the Harvard Law Review) … but only got in to Harvard because of affirmative action. Bush and Cheney did all the hard work, getting Osama bin Laden cornered in a luxury condo in North Pakistan … and Obama tries to take credit for the kill. And on and on and on. His daughters dress like sluts, Michelle looks like a fat monkey. No, we’re not racist, we just don’t think fat monkeys should be First Lady. One Doper started a thread to complain that Obama “shamed” a Marine guard by making him hold an umbrella over him in the rain. :smack: That Doper crawled away, tail between legs, when photos were presented of Bush, Bush and Reagan under Marine-held umbrellas. Hatred of Obama is sometimes not racist? _ **Bullshit!** _ One can disapprove of Obama’s policies. (80% of those who do are morons, but not necessarily racist). But to “hate” (your word) Obama? For what? I started this thread in part because I sincerely wonder where all the irrational hatred of Hillary comes from, but the source of hatred against Obama cannot possibly be in doubt. Why do you think non-racists hate Obama, **Cad**? Is it the death camps? That he tried to close the Gitmo torture camp … or that he didn’t? Is it, as some Teabaggers explain, that he pretends to be half-white? You are stupid, **Saint Cad** , very very stupid. I’d already seen enough of your prior posts to know you were a clinical moron. Now I’m promoting you to imbecile. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/175 "2016-08-05T02:51:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Don’t be a hater, **Yoggy**. The tube was always for you guys. 🙂 Your fetish for cardboard tubes and pedophiles continues to do your reputation proud ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/176 "2016-08-05T03:37:31Z")
Le snore… Pardon my French 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/177 "2016-08-05T12:40:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I listed quite a few of the reasons why people don’t like her in post 108. But since they can’t be blamed on sexism or racism (she was in that black guy’s administration, you know) crickets have been chirping. And in your halcyon days of the 1950’s, neither a woman nor a “black guy” would have run for president. Back then, people\* knew\* their places… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/178 "2016-08-05T13:59:06Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Your fetish for cardboard tubes and pedophiles continues to do your reputation proud To be fair, the cardboard tube thing was in fact something he was recommending other posters try. As to what sort of stimulus the thought of other Dopers attempting to penetrate cardboard tubes might have given him: well, that would be pure speculation, so I won’t go there. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/179 "2016-08-05T17:30:25Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > To be fair, the cardboard tube thing was in fact something he was recommending other posters try. As to what sort of stimulus the thought of other Dopers attempting to penetrate cardboard tubes might have given him: well, that would be pure speculation, so I won’t go there. 🙂 Thanks for the clarification, I’ll have to ask him about it next time. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284/180 "2016-08-05T20:02:38Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > And in your halcyon days of the 1950’s, neither a woman nor a “black guy” would have run for president. Back then, people\* knew\* their places… I wonder what it is about the 50s that renders morons incapable of separating the good from the bad. Perhaps you could speak to this issue. 😃 My objection to the way things are now vs. the 50s has nothing to do with sexism or racism and everything to do with the way people behave. Also the way government is run…especially when it comes to education. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-hatred-of-hillary/761284.md?page=10)