# I pit the Houston Independent School District **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624 "2016-05-25T03:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/161 "2016-05-31T23:34:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He answered this [already](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19363743&postcount=69). Except he didn’t say who the losers are or why it considers them such. Though they’d have to be pretty bad to be worse than traitors and slave owners. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/162 "2016-05-31T23:42:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Except he didn’t say who the losers are or why it considers them such. Though they’d have to be pretty bad to be worse than traitors and slave owners. You mean…_Republicans_??!!?? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/163 "2016-06-01T10:42:02Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > The grammar, for one. > > But also the incoherent trash vomiting from that woman’s mouth. > > It that brings you to your knees, then congratulations. You’re the downfall of society. > > Good day, common filth. _A single poster on The Straight Dope Message Boards_ is the downfall of society? Wow. Cool, kinda. Poor, poor **Green Bean**. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/164 "2016-06-01T12:37:40Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > But also the incoherent trash vomiting from that woman’s mouth. I had no trouble understanding her. Maybe you’re just stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/165 "2016-06-01T17:39:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He answered this [already](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19363743&postcount=69). No, he didn’t. He said: > [@Clothahump](#): > > We’ve already got schools named after people I think are losers. We’re stuck with them. But if HISD decided to change those school name for no valid reason whatsoever like they are doing now, I’d be bitching about the waste of taxpayer money just like I am now. He specified the weasel clause about changing names “for no valid reason whatsoever”, which he claims applies to the HISD decision. He has **not** said whether or not he thinks that **renaming Quebecois streets named after Nazis** would also be a “waste of taxpayer money for no valid reason whatsoever”, or that **renaming Washington National Airport to Reagan National** was also a “waste of taxpayer money for no valid reason whatsoever”. If he did, his justifications would still be shitty but at least they’d be consistent. He’d basically be standing up for the general position _“Once the government has named something we are stuck with that name and shouldn’t waste taxpayer money on changing it even if we don’t like it. Just because we may not approve of all the connotations of a name isn’t a valid reason to spend money on changing it”_. But if **Clothahump** won’t condemn similarly “pointless” and “wasteful” name changes like renaming Washington National or removing street names commemorating Nazis, then he’s just being a common or garden conservative hypocrite. It’s really the pushback against Confederate “white pride” heritage that’s bugging him, not the “waste” of taxpayer money. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/166 "2016-06-01T17:49:17Z")
**Clothahump** is rhetorical coward – he will respond to the quips (with quips of his own), but totally (or almost totally) ignores the actual reasonable attempts at debate. This has been his pattern for years in terms of criticizing liberals. If you’re not a coward, **Clothy** , then respond to **Kimstu’s** post #165 and my posts #147 and #149, among others. Actually think about what we say and put some thought into your response. If you’re capable of it. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/167 "2016-06-01T18:25:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **renaming Quebecois streets named after Nazis** would also be a “waste of taxpayer money for no valid reason whatsoever” Well, in those cases (I’m assuming the Rue Philipp Lenard and Rue Alexis Carrel), it’s extremely doubtful that either street was named for those men to commemorate their Nazi support. In Lenard’s case, it was almost certainly due to his 1905 Nobel Prize in Physics, and in Carrel’s case, it was likely due to his many medical advances, including his own Nobel Prize in Physiology/Medicine in 1912, his participation in the development and use of Dakin’s solution during WWI, or several other things. And, I’ll bet the streets were named for them prior to the existence of the Nazi Party, considering how early their Nobel Prizes were awarded. I’m not entirely sold on the idea of renaming things that were named for accomplishments unrelated to other earlier or later odious acts or opinions. That’s a slippery slope- it seems that there are few public figures from the 19th century or before who wasn’t associated with something awful at some point, be it slavery, racism, massacres, etc… Look at it this way… let’s say that 75 years from now, they decide to rename [everything that has Enrico Fermi’s name](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Enrico_Fermi) on it because he was involved with the Manhattan Project. Is that reasonable? We’d say no, but in the future, who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/168 "2016-06-01T18:45:55Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s State Board of Education stuff… a notorious gang of imbeciles if there ever was one. ISTR that they elected some (likely senile) crazy old woman who’s a creationist and holds all manner of other dumb-ass beliefs. > > They’re the ones who decide on the state portion of the curricula, the accepted list of textbooks, and the like. Local school districts have their choice of the approved books, and how to go about teaching each grade level, etc… but the real stupid stuff is at the state level. > > Personally, I attribute it to setting the board up as a body of popularly elected people from specific geographic districts. It virtually guarantees that the rural parts of the state will elect people who should BE in special ed, not making decisions about it, purely on the basis that these clowns are Republicans and conservatives, not because they’re specialists in education, or smart enough to know that the world’s not actually flat, or that cavemen didn’t herd mammoths riding T-Rexes. Donna Bahorich is the Head of the SBOE. She was appointed by Governor Abbott–but elected from my district. I don’t know _how_ they draw the lines of these districts. My US Rep, State Rep & State Senator are all Democrats; I live close to Downtown Houston. Too many people ignore this little office at the end of a long ballot. Or they don’t have kids & don’t care about education in Texas. Or they don’t bother to vote, since Texas will probably still be Red in the electoral college–and they don’t think about the offices where their votes might make a difference. The Texas Freedom Network has a page on [Ms Bahorich](http://tfn.org/tag/donna-bahorich/). She homeschooled her kids, then sent them to private religious high schools; her right–but why should she get to affect public schools? She owns a company offering teachers to homeschooling parents–so they can school their kids in Biology without any of that nasty Evolution stuff. And she’s worked for Dan Patrick, our Lite Gov who makes the Governor look good… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/169 "2016-06-01T19:16:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **Clothahump** is rhetorical coward – he will respond to the quips (with quips of his own), but totally (or almost totally) ignores the actual reasonable attempts at debate. This has been his pattern for years in terms of criticizing liberals. > > If you’re not a coward, **Clothy** , then respond to **Kimstu’s** post #165 and my posts #147 and #149, among others. Actually think about what we say and put some thought into your response. If you’re capable of it. You realize he probably has put us all on “Ignore” and thus can’t read the challenge? Either that or he’s stumped. Even odds and pick 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/170 "2016-06-02T04:57:06Z")
Hey Clothy, imagine that in 1933, someone in America founded a high school and named it “Adolf Hitler High”. Would it be “political correctness” to ask that the school be renamed? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/171 "2016-06-02T09:01:14Z")
I think renaming the schools away from a bunch of racist traitors is worth every single dollar it takes to do it. The real waste of money was in giving the schools such idiotic names in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/172 "2016-06-02T12:16:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I think renaming the schools away from a bunch of racist traitors is worth every single dollar it takes to do it. > \*\* > The real waste of money was in giving the schools such idiotic names in the first place.\*\* Depends on when the school was named. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/173 "2016-06-02T13:03:39Z")
If it was after 1865, then it was a waste of money. They were traitors then, they are traitors now. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/174 "2016-06-02T13:05:35Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > If it was after 1865, then it was a waste of money. They were traitors then, they are traitors now. Schools are typically named when they’re built, no extra charge. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/175 "2016-06-02T13:11:31Z")
No, there’s a charge for the original name as well. If you disagree, start a business and find out. Regardless, there are costs associated with the original name and there are costs associated with renaming it: Signs, stationery, posters, etc, just don’t come for free. So, after the decision is made, the cost to name the school is about the same as the cost to name it in the first place. And, the cost is justified because we no longer have schools named after racist traitors. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/176 "2016-06-02T14:17:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > If it was after 1865, then it was a waste of money. They were traitors then, they are traitors now. What the fuck ever happened to “With malice toward none, with charity for all…”? The whole idea for a very long time after the war was that we were ALL Americans, and were treated as such. I figure if Lincoln, Johnson and the rest of the people of the time forgave them and refused to prosecute them as traitors, it’s a bit absurd for us to get all vitriolic now, some 150-odd years later and castigate them as traitorous and what-not. This doesn’t mean that we should put up with absurd stuff like the Confederate Lost Cause, or anything like that, but it does mean that performing some sort of early-21st century “Damnatio Memoriae” on them is equally absurd. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/177 "2016-06-02T14:24:06Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What the fuck ever happened to “With malice toward none, with charity for all…”? The whole idea for a very long time after the war was that we were ALL Americans, and were treated as such. > > I figure if Lincoln, Johnson and the rest of the people of the time forgave them and refused to prosecute them as traitors, it’s a bit absurd for us to get all vitriolic now, some 150-odd years later and castigate them as traitorous and what-not. > > This doesn’t mean that we should put up with absurd stuff like the Confederate Lost Cause, or anything like that, but it does mean that performing some sort of early-21st century “Damnatio Memoriae” on them is equally absurd. What happened was Jim Crow, and the KKK, and segregation, and the like. Supporters of all of those explicitly used Confederate imagery (and Confederate “heroes”) for their white supremacist causes, and that’s primarily where most of that stuff (like the Confederate flag, as well as various monuments) come from. That stuff didn’t start to become so common until Jim Crow and other white supremacist institutions and practices started to be seriously challenged. It’s not a coincidence that the Stone Mountain carving started construction at the same time that the KKK was gaining strength and influence. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/178 "2016-06-02T15:32:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What the fuck ever happened to “With malice toward none, with charity for all…”? When the racist pig-fuckers who keep naming things after traitors stop showing malice towards other groups, races, and religions, I’ll stop calling them pig-fuckers and demanding that their heroes be removed from public buildings. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/179 "2016-06-02T19:00:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What happened was Jim Crow, and the KKK, and segregation, and the like. Supporters of all of those explicitly used Confederate imagery (and Confederate “heroes”) for their white supremacist causes, and that’s primarily where most of that stuff (like the Confederate flag, as well as various monuments) come from. And most recently, as I pointed out early in the thread, Dylann Roof’s little crusade to start “saving” the white race from those awful awful black people. Which happens to be the incident that got the current wave of de-Confederatizing public spaces rolling in the first place. White racists ever since Reconstruction, as **iiandyiiii** notes, have been deliberately using Confederate iconography to represent their own unrepentantly loathsome ideology for nearly a century and a half now. **If they don’t like the fact that most of the rest of the population finds these symbols revolting, they have nobody to blame but themselves.** If the Civil War had been followed by genuine repentance and reconciliation (and IMO reparations to former slaves as well), then by now we might be at a point where people could still have a sentimental attachment to Confederate symbols without thereby suggesting any particular political or ideological position. (Sort of like how in the UK, the English Civil War and various Scottish and Welsh rebellions to many individuals symbolize a personal or regional heritage rather than political identity. The Irish rebellions, maybe not so much.) But the well of “Confederate heritage” has been poisoned good and proper by now, and it’s the white racists who’ve done it (and are still doing it). They don’t get to whine about the rest of the nation finally deciding _“okay then, you know what, we don’t actually want to keep drinking from this poisoned well any more”_. Forgive my repeating myself, but the thread’s gotten long enough that early remarks have probably been lost in the shuffle: > [@Kimstu](#): > > Blame it on Dylann Roof and his lovely little Confederate fetish. It seems to be generally agreed that the current wave of popular revulsion for Confederate icons was launched by domestic terrorist Roof’s embrace of them as symbols and inspiration for his racist murderous rampage. > > People put up with the glorification of the iconography of pro-secession, pro-slavery separatists for a long while, on the grounds that its defenders considered it “heritage, not hate”. > > Well, surprise, turns out it **is** about hate, at least for a sufficiently large and violent minority to produce an actual mass murderer claiming to espouse its ideals. Yeah, Confederate “heroes” aren’t looking so appealing just now, but that ain’t the Houston school district’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624/180 "2016-06-06T21:22:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **Clothahump** is rhetorical coward – he will respond to the quips (with quips of his own), but totally (or almost totally) ignores the actual reasonable attempts at debate. This has been his pattern for years in terms of criticizing liberals. I did have to laugh at that. What reasonable attempts at debate? All I have seen is namecalling and strawman posts. > [@](#): > > If you’re not a coward, **Clothy** , then respond to **Kimstu’s** post #165 and my posts #147 and #149, among others. Actually think about what we say and put some thought into your response. If you’re capable of it. Fuck off with the coward bullshit and try debating reasonably. Oh, wait - you think you are debating reasonably by calling me names. Shame on me for forgetting that. But to answer your question…I can’t speak to the citizens of Quebec, as I am not aware of any controversy over street naming up there. As far as renaming the airport, having read up on it, I will say that IMO, it should not have been renamed. There was no valid reason for renaming it. Clinton did so against the express wishes of the airport’s governing board. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-houston-independent-school-district/755624.md?page=10)