# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/181 "2012-06-14T14:55:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’d be happy to see this linked under those circumstances, **Hentor**. I’m offering reasoned rebuttal, and you’re calling me a mindless partisan douchenozzle who is entirely without principle or integrity. I think this is an excellent illustration our our respective approaches to debate. No, reason would be something along the lines of “Here’s the reason that voter fraud is an actual problem rather than a figment of my imagination.” What you’re saying is that voter fraud is not a problem, but people appear to think it is, so therefore we should implement a costly government intervention that will prevent some legitimate voters for voting. That’s not based in any sort of reason that bears any resemblance to reality. Douchenozzle. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/182 "2012-06-14T15:02:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree. If I say that voter confidence is the aim, and I point to widespread belief, supported by polling results, that Voter ID laws are a good idea to improve the security and trustworthiness of outcomes While ignoring the 3 studies that show that voter confidence doesn’t improve at all with mandatory ID. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/183 "2012-06-14T15:04:32Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > When the Voter ID pushers start pushing to eliminate absentee ballots, which is where you can find a huge portion of the otherwise minimal issue of voter fraud, THEN I’ll stop believing that they are scumbags who simply want to deprive a certain class from voting. Fuckers can’t make it to the polls, fuck 'em. Trusting of “the integrity of the process” is too important, or something like that. > > So far, crickets. Republicans hate absentee ballots in a lot of state. The people who most often vote absentee (eg elderly) vote Democrat. Until Republicans caught on that was a really good idea and mounted campaigns in Florida and the like. But prohibiting felons and people with the last name -ez and restricting Sunday voting? Yeah, good tactic. Lookin’ at you, [Ohio](http://www.thenation.com/blog/164430/block-vote-ohio-gop-bars-early-voting-suppress-pro-labor-turnout). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/184 "2012-06-14T15:14:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Bah. You lost. … there’s zero, zip, nada, and also zilch you can do to change this trend. One thing I find loathsome about right-wingers is their juvenile attitude that politics is like a sports event. The umpire calls a play wrong? “Haha! Bah. You lost. … there’s zero, zip, nada, and also zilch you can do about it … Natter natter natter.” On a different issue, where Bricker the Hypocrite might feel he were on the side of rationality or fairness, he’d take an opposite holier-than-thou pose. The reason “liberals” care about this issue is that, in fact, the result of GOP’s vote-suppression drives will be to reduce the portion of voters voting Democratic. That’s a fact. It might be nice for right-wingers to simply comment on whether they believe that fact to be true or not. I’ll have respect for those who admit it to be true. The others? Well, we already knew you were mostly liars, imbeciles and hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/185 "2012-06-14T15:15:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why let facts get in the way of a good slur? It’s certainly never stopped any of the lefties around here. Or anywhere else, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/186 "2012-06-14T15:32:48Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > It’s certainly never stopped any of the lefties around here. Or anywhere else, for that matter. Cite? And not from Der Tris, we already know he’s off the deep end. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/187 "2012-06-14T15:44:11Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > While ignoring the 3 studies that show that voter confidence doesn’t improve at all with mandatory ID. No. I have distinguished those studies, by pointing out that none of them address the particular type of voter confidence I am referring to. Do you remember my doing that? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/188 "2012-06-14T15:45:18Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The reason “liberals” care about this issue is that, in fact, the result of GOP’s vote-suppression drives will be to reduce the portion of voters voting Democratic. That’s a fact. Perhaps the saddest part of this discussion is the fact that so many people are themselves so incapable of putting country before party that they don’t recognize that the concept can even exist, as for example we see right here. \*That \*is far more corrosive to democracy than any petty manipulation of voter rolls could ever be. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/189 "2012-06-14T15:48:18Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No, reason would be something along the lines of “Here’s the reason that voter fraud is an actual problem rather than a figment of my imagination.” > > What you’re saying is that voter fraud is not a problem, but people appear to think it is, so therefore we should implement a costly government intervention that will prevent some legitimate voters for voting. > > That’s not based in any sort of reason that bears any resemblance to reality. Douchenozzle. I’m saying that voter confidence in the outcome of elections is a problem. I don’t agree that any of the schemes proposed are particularly costly. You obviously disagree. I don’t doubt you come by your opinion honestly, but you doubt I come by mine honestly – even though mine is shared by a majority of the voters. So are the majority of voters, the ones that support this, ALSO “douchenozzles?” And is that just your view, or a more general view held by your companions on the left? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/190 "2012-06-14T15:51:31Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > One thing I find loathsome about right-wingers is their juvenile attitude that politics is like a sports event. The umpire calls a play wrong? “Haha! Bah. You lost. … there’s zero, zip, nada, and also zilch you can do about it … Natter natter natter.” > > On a different issue, where Bricker the Hypocrite might feel he were on the side of rationality or fairness, he’d take an opposite holier-than-thou pose. > > The reason “liberals” care about this issue is that, in fact, the result of GOP’s vote-suppression drives will be to reduce the portion of voters voting Democratic. That’s a fact. > > It might be nice for right-wingers to simply comment on whether they believe that fact to be true or not. I’ll have respect for those who admit it to be true. The others? Well, we already knew you were mostly liars, imbeciles and hypocrites. Heh heh. OK, I admit it: The reason “liberals” care about this issue is that, in fact, the result of GOP’s vote-suppression drives will be to reduce the portion of voters voting Democratic. You said it. I was forced to agree my the power of your persuasion. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/191 "2012-06-14T16:18:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m saying that voter confidence in the outcome of elections is a problem. I don’t agree that any of the schemes proposed are particularly costly. > > You obviously disagree. I don’t doubt you come by your opinion honestly, but you doubt I come by mine honestly – even though mine is shared by a majority of the voters. So are the majority of voters, the ones that support this, ALSO “douchenozzles?” And is that just your view, or a more general view held by your companions on the left? I haven’t been able to correspond with the majority of voters, so I don’t know. I suspect that very few of them know that there is actually next to zero voter fraud going on. Those who have this explained to them, who acknowledge that voting with a false ID would still occur, and who dismiss concerns about keeping legitimate voters from voting? Yes, I’d say that they are also douchenozzles and are deserving of no respect. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/192 "2012-06-14T16:31:56Z")
My only problem with IDs is that they aren’t free and constitute as a de facto poll tax. In my opinion, if the State wants to put onerous restrictions on a constitutionally protected right, then those restrictions ought to be free-of-cost. I don’t remember paying for my Social Security Card (even for the replacement), has anyone else? It’s absurd that voter id cards (or whatever they want to use) aren’t free as well. I agree with the OP, though. I think everyone wants to stop voter fraud but railing against IDs seems as a jab to disenfranchise minorities. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/193 "2012-06-14T16:34:49Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > My only problem with IDs is that they aren’t free and constitute as a kind of poll tax. In my opinion, if the State wants to put onerous restrictions on a constitutionally protected right, then those restrictions ought to be free-of-cost. I don’t remember paying for my Social Security Card (even for the replacement), has anyone else? It’s absurd that voter id cards (or whatever they want to use) aren’t free as well. I agree. It is absurd. It’s also untrue. Every single state that requires voter ID card offers them for free. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/194 "2012-06-14T16:37:27Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I haven’t been able to correspond with the majority of voters, so I don’t know. I suspect that very few of them know that there is actually next to zero voter fraud going on. Those who have this explained to them, who acknowledge that voting with a false ID would still occur, and who dismiss concerns about keeping legitimate voters from voting? Yes, I’d say that they are also douchenozzles and are deserving of no respect. You haven’t been able to correspond with the majority of the voters about anything, **Hentor**. Is your contention that their general will is unknowable? Should Obama be the president? Do the majority of voters want him? I didn’t correspond with them, so I don’t know. In my opinion, we can rely on poll numbers and election results as a fair proxy for things the majority of voters want. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/195 "2012-06-14T16:37:32Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I think everyone wants to stop voter fraud but railing against IDs seems as a jab to disenfranchise minorities. > > - Honesty I think everyone wants to stop the Molepeople from tunneling in and pilfering our bank reserves too, which is happening at about the same rate as voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/196 "2012-06-14T16:40:19Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I think everyone wants to stop the Molepeople from tunneling in and pilfering our bank reserves too, which is happening at about the same rate as voter fraud. Yes… except that we still seem to want to place our bank reserves in steel vaults, protected with guards and alarms. And when someone wants to get into those vaults, we require a photo ID. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/197 "2012-06-14T16:42:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes… except that we still seem to want to place our bank reserves in steel vaults, protected with guards and alarms. And when someone wants to get into those vaults, we require a photo ID. Because bank theft is a demonstrated problem. Didn’t you know that? Are you saying that you’re worried about Molepeople? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/198 "2012-06-14T16:43:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You haven’t been able to correspond with the majority of the voters about anything, **Hentor**. Is your contention that their general will is unknowable? > > Should Obama be the president? Do the majority of voters want him? I didn’t correspond with them, so I don’t know. > > In my opinion, we can rely on poll numbers and election results as a fair proxy for things the majority of voters want. In the end, you’re reduced to ad populum. Sad. Desperate. Douchenozzle. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/199 "2012-06-14T16:52:54Z")
You know, logically to me, IF there is voter fraud going on, and IF it actually results in more votes for Democrats… …then doesn’t it naturally follow that a voter-ID program will automatically result in fewer Democrat votes? Which, if those items are true, isn’t a BAD THING, people, electorally speaking. Now, it might be a bad thing for your side (if you’re on the “suppressed” side), but it is healthy for a republic… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/200 "2012-06-14T16:56:23Z")
Did you forget to flip your sarcasm flag on? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=11)