# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 106
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2101 "2012-08-02T03:09:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My point in response is that similar percentages of people in Indiana were alleged to lack photo ID, and Indiana did not suffers the chaos predicted in the Thinkprogress link. [http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012/07/voter-id-laws-disenfranchise-thousands-of-legal-voters-ap-investigation-finds/](http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012/07/voter-id-laws-disenfranchise-thousands-of-legal-voters-ap-investigation-finds/) > [@](#): > > As more states put in place strict voter ID rules, an AP review of temporary ballots from Indiana and Georgia, which first adopted the most stringent standards, found that more than 1,200 such votes were tossed during the 2008 general election. > > During sparsely attended primaries this year in Georgia, Indiana and Tennessee, the states implementing the toughest laws, hundreds more ballots were blocked. > > The numbers suggest that the legitimate votes rejected by the laws are far more numerous than are the cases of fraud that advocates of the rules say they are trying to prevent. Thousands more votes could be in jeopardy for this November, when more states with larger populations are looking to have similar rules in place. . . . > > Indiana counties that maintained information from the 2008 election reported having hundreds of ballots tossed, and more than 100 more were rejected in the primary this year. The numbers can vary greatly depending on the election: Tippecanoe County, for example, had no ID-related temporary ballots excluded in the primary vote this year compared with 47 in the 2008 general election. And that only takes into account voters who cast temporary ballots, not those voters who didn’t vote at all because they lacked the proper ID. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2102 "2012-08-02T12:32:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How about, “Won?” Not until we see you pumping away at a Playtex Living Glove. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2103 "2012-08-02T14:21:50Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > [http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012/07/voter-id-laws-disenfranchise-thousands-of-legal-voters-ap-investigation-finds/](http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012/07/voter-id-laws-disenfranchise-thousands-of-legal-voters-ap-investigation-finds/) > > And that only takes into account voters who cast temporary ballots, not those voters who didn’t vote at all because they lacked the proper ID. 1. Who cares if 1,200 provisional ballots were tossed after the election? We know the margin of victory was much greater than that, right? So they didn’t affect the result. Isn’t that your argument with respect to fraudulent votes? 1. The “ThinkProgress” link was titled _Why Pennsylvania’s Voter ID Law Will Create Chaos On Election Day._ Your recitation doesn’t describe chaos. Does it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2104 "2012-08-02T14:26:50Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > By the way, you didn’t respond at all to this part of my last post, I’m curious what your position is: > > > [@](#): > > > > You log onto the SDMB and see a thread about each one. Which thread are you more likely to open up and participate in… one in which you’re going to have to spend a lot of time saying “yes, this organization which I’m very devoted to did something really really awful, and I have to keep stressing that, and it’s bad” or one in which you can be pointing out the errors and flaws of people you strongly disagree with and oppose The very fact that I post at all on the SDMB should answer your question. The vast majority of threads here are inimical to my preferred positions; I am constantly on the defensive. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2105 "2012-08-02T15:38:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am constantly on the defensive. Being a devotee to a stupid and backwards ideology will do that. Your typical post in a political thread is to frantically search for something, anything you can claim is just as bad as whatever is under discussion. As in this thread you’ll stretch like Mr. Fantastic to find something. One legislature flipping who chooses a replacement Senator is to your dull and vapid reasoning exactly equal to potentially millions of Americans not being able to vote (to fight a problem that doesn’t actually exist). Maybe if you didn’t spend your time defending idiots and cravens you’d be less defensive? Also, you want poor people and minorities to not vote because it helps your political goals. In other words, you’re not a good person. Who cares if you’re on the defensive. Genuinely bad people shouldn’t rest easy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2106 "2012-08-02T16:45:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …2. The “ThinkProgress” link was titled _Why Pennsylvania’s Voter ID Law Will Create Chaos On Election Day._ Your recitation doesn’t describe chaos. Does it? By Bleeding Og, he’s right! It does say “chaos”, and no such condition of utter and complete random turmoil exists! Phone services and post offices are not disrupted, there has been no recorded increase in cats and dogs living together, the use of that word is wholly unjustified! I denounce, renounce, and condemn in the strongest possible terms, I roll about on the floor kicking, screaming, and setting my hair on fire! I had not realized until now the depths of _ThinkProgress_ perfidy and vile disregard for decent semantic norms! The gentle reader will recoil at the ghastly disrespect for time-honored traditions, and can do so here: > **[ThinkProgress](https://thinkprogress.org/)** We should all take a moment to thank \*\*Bricker \*\*for his alert and eagle-eyed surveillance of such linguistic liscentiousness, and stand firm against the corruption of our nations vocabulary resources by such scoundrels as _ThinkProgress_. Further examples of such degraded verbalisms can also be found at another lefty site, widely known for its disdain for the boundaries of decent linguistic discourse! [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/) Our nation cannot prosper…indeed, can hardly be expected to survive!..if such radical and revolutionary contempt for our sacred language is permitted to thrive in our very midst! We should all extend our gratitude and approval for the Counselor, who patrols the borders of our linguistic heritage with a sharp eye for such corrupt usages as this disgraceful display! One can hardly doubt that this certainly explains the Counselor’s reluctance to provide cites and links for his own pronouncements, as he can hardly be expected to comb through so very, very many to ensure the pristine purity of our national vocabulary. A daunting task, to be sure! The thanks of a greatful nation go out to you, sir! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2107 "2012-08-02T16:56:19Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Not until we see you pumping away at a Playtex Living Glove. Pics, or it didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2108 "2012-08-02T16:57:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The very fact that I post at all on the SDMB should answer your question. The vast majority of threads here are inimical to my preferred positions; I am constantly on the defensive. Actually, that’s somewhat orthogonal. You post on the SDMB rather than on some right-leaning board, and, first of all, it might not say anything at all… it might just be an accident of history that you stumbled upon the SDMB at some point and you like it. If there were an equivalent board that was evenly balanced with left and right posters, or one that leaned strongly right, maybe you would enjoy posting there more, I dunno. And even if it does say something about you that you post here, what it says is that you enjoy being outnumbered and having lots of people disagree with you, which is not what I was talking about at all. I was talking about the distinction between a topic in which you feel your “side” is the right side, and a topic in which you feel your “side” is the wrong side… that is, when an organization or politician who generally agrees with you or represents you has done something wrong. Threads of both sorts can both exist on the SDMB, regardless of the fact that the SDMB is overwhelmingly liberal. And the reason I brought it up in the first place, which has gotten lost here, is to make the claim that you can NOT, generally speaking, draw conclusions about someone’s opinion about, or position on, a topic simply because they don’t post in a thread about that topic, for various reasons, one of which is that it’s entirely understandable to have more fun posting in a thread about how awesome your side is, and boy everyone who disagrees with that is dumb and man I’m gonna show them up; rather than a thread about how yeah, your guy screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2109 "2012-08-02T17:01:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > 1. Who cares if 1,200 provisional ballots were tossed after the election? Unfuckingbelievable. :rolleyes: > [@elucidator](#): > > Pics, or it didn’t happen. I’m willing to take his word for it, and gratefully. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2110 "2012-08-02T17:03:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Again I’ll need more time to respond in detail, but I will quickly highlight this to say: they acted legally. I don’t like the result, but the process was followed ad the people of Massachusetts have a ready remedy. So while I don’t think it’s “fine,” neither do I think it’s illegitimate. I was gonna wait and respond to everything you had to say at once, but, eh, what the heck. I think what you’re saying is kind of meaningless. Presumably, you disagree with the general Democratic Party philosophy of government. So when Democrats are in power, and do things, then you must fairly often have the response of “they acted legally. I don’t like the result, but the process was followed and the people of MA have a ready remedy”. But it seems pretty clear to me that you classify the MA senatorial election issue as something different from just “oh, democrats raised taxes, I think they should not have done that”. Or is your position that the two issues (voter ID and MA senate shenanigans) are both legal and basically unremarkable, and in neither case are you particularly outraged at any ethical or macro-scale-democratic issues, and in one case (because your side won) you’re happy with the result, and in one case you’re not? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2111 "2012-08-02T17:04:56Z")
> [@](#): > > …I’m willing to take his word for it, and gratefully. Well, we can assign the task of inspection to someone who’s depravity and sexual corruption renders them immune to such horror. I was thinking **Lobo** … ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2112 "2012-08-02T17:16:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, we can assign the task of inspection to someone who’s depravity and sexual corruption renders them immune to such horror. I was thinking **Lobo** … [Zips up gimp suit and lowers goggles]I’m ready. _Let’s dooooooooooo this!_ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2113 "2012-08-02T18:47:12Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I was gonna wait and respond to everything you had to say at once, but, eh, what the heck. > > I think what you’re saying is kind of meaningless. Presumably, you disagree with the general Democratic Party philosophy of government. So when Democrats are in power, and do things, then you must fairly often have the response of “they acted legally. I don’t like the result, but the process was followed and the people of MA have a ready remedy”. But it seems pretty clear to me that you classify the MA senatorial election issue as something different from just “oh, democrats raised taxes, I think they should not have done that”. > Or is your position that the two issues (voter ID and MA senate shenanigans) are both legal and basically unremarkable, and in neither case are you particularly outraged at any ethical or macro-scale-democratic issues, and in one case (because your side won) you’re happy with the result, and in one case you’re not? Yes, essentially the latter. The only reason the Massachusetts business is remarkable to me is as a club to hit lefties. That is, I can hardly say, “See? We elected Obama and he passed a sweeping government health care bill!” The response will be, “Great! That’s what we wanted! We’re only upset that it didn’t go farther!” With the Massachusetts thing, t get lefty responses ranging from embarrassed throat clearing, highly transparent attempts to defend both moves as actually democratic (small d) in nature, or your new contribution: la-la-la-la-la-I-see-nothing-nothing-at-all. But your latter summary is correct: both are legal, both examples of what politicians do when they have power, and both subject to reversal by the people if they are particularly outraged. That’s how the system works. I don’t like some results, and like others, but I don’t think of any of them as alarming. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2114 "2012-08-02T18:48:27Z")
So that pesky democracy stuff doesn’t even register with you, huh? That makes the baby George Washington cry. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2115 "2012-08-02T19:24:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > … or your new contribution: la-la-la-la-la-I-see-nothing-nothing-at-all… He said nothing of the sort. Not even close. In what appears to be an effort to raise the tone of this thread, he offered you a dignity in address that you instantly scorn while you simultaneously weep piteously about how poorly treated you are. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2116 "2012-08-02T19:27:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, essentially the latter. The only reason the Massachusetts business is remarkable to me is as a club to hit lefties. That is, I can hardly say, “See? We elected Obama and he passed a sweeping government health care bill!” The response will be, “Great! That’s what we wanted! We’re only upset that it didn’t go farther!” With the Massachusetts thing, t get lefty responses ranging from embarrassed throat clearing, highly transparent attempts to defend both moves as actually democratic (small d) in nature, or your new contribution: la-la-la-la-la-I-see-nothing-nothing-at-all. > > But your latter summary is correct: both are legal, both examples of what politicians do when they have power, and both subject to reversal by the people if they are particularly outraged. That’s how the system works. I don’t like some results, and like others, but I don’t think of any of them as alarming. And the reason that people rightly call you a bad person, is you don’t see keeping millions of Americans from voting to be a big deal. Flipping the rules in the middle of a game is shady. But the Dems in Mass didn’t keep anyone from voting. They did something partisan. It wasn’t fair play and it wasn’t laudable. However, it’s not anywhere near the same league as keeping millions of voters from voting in a presidential election because you think you might lose it. That’s unAmerican and it’s evil. **Dems run a state legislature** = change the rules for who selects a replacement Senator. **Pubs run a state legislature** = change the rules so minorities and the poor have a harder time voting, since they vote Democrat. _Haw haw haw._ The very fact that you can stand in sight of your imaginary God and pretend that they are equal shows you are such a moral-defective that you shouldn’t have access to kitchen knives, much less be raising children. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2117 "2012-08-02T19:30:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > or your new contribution: la-la-la-la-la-I-see-nothing-nothing-at-all. That’s a terribly insulting and inaccurate summation of my position. However, I will respond in full after you have responded at greater length to my most recent lengthy post, #2080 (or are you done responding to it?). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2118 "2012-08-02T19:32:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Flipping the rules in the middle of a game is shady. But the Dems in Mass didn’t keep anyone from voting. They did something partisan. It wasn’t fair play and it wasn’t laudable. Not so. No need to concede that to him. The MA Dems \*prevented \*a partisan act, and \*strengthened \*democracy. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2119 "2012-08-02T19:35:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > or your new contribution: la-la-la-la-la-I-see-nothing-nothing-at-all. That’s a terribly insulting and inaccurate summation of my position. However, I will respond in full after you have responded at greater length to my most recent lengthy post, #2080 (or are you done responding to it?). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2120 "2012-08-02T19:39:34Z")
Tonight on ‘It’s the Mind’, we examine the phenomenon of deja vu. That strange feeling we sometimes get that we’ve lived through something before… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=105) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=107)