# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 113
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2241 "2012-08-15T18:03:14Z")
[Yet another court says](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/judge-upholds-pennsylvania-voter-id-requirement-article-1.1136769) that Voter ID laws are the bees knees! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2242 "2012-08-15T18:31:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [Yet another court says](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/judge-upholds-pennsylvania-voter-id-requirement-article-1.1136769) that Voter ID laws are the bees knees! Wait, I thought I read that there was no ruling on the merits here? Or did I misinterpret the news reports? I’d also like to repeat my question (to the wider audience of voter ID law supporters, not you in particular, **Bricker** ), with an edit: How would those on the conservative/Republican side rate their agreement with this statement: no matter what reasons politicians put forth for voter ID laws, and no matter why many voters and constituents think it’s a good idea, there is a significant number of politicians who introduced these laws for the primary purpose of benefiting themselves or their party in future elections by making it harder for legal voters statistically likely to vote for their opponents to cast their ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2243 "2012-08-15T18:37:54Z")
I’d rate it an Electric Lime. It’s #36 on the list. > **[List of Crayola crayon colors | Standard colors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Crayola_crayon_colors#Standard_colors)** > > Along with the regular packs of crayons, there have been many specialty sets, including Silver Swirls, Gem Tones, Pearl Brite Crayons, Metallic FX Crayons, Magic Scent Crayons, Silly Scents, and more. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2244 "2012-08-15T19:38:49Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Wait, I thought I read that there was no ruling on the merits here? Or did I misinterpret the news reports? There was a ruling on the injunction. That’s not a ruling on the merits… in a sense. But in Pennsylvania, the standard for the granting of an injunction is that the party requesting the injunction, the petitioner, must show every one of the following: [ol] [li]relief is necessary to prevent immediate and irreparable harm that cannot be adequately compensated by money damages; [_]greater injury will occur from refusmg to grant the injunction than from granting it; [_]the injunction will restore the parties to their status quo as it existed before the alleged wrongful conduct; [_]the petitioner is likely to prevail on the merits; [_]the injunction is reasonably suited to abate the offending activity; and, [\*]the public interest will not be harmed if the injunction is granted [/ol][/li] The judge found no credible evidence that the harm would happen at all, much less that it was immediate or irreparable. Every single witness that petitioners tried to use to show a person that would be denied the right to vote was found to be not credible for that purpose. Based on the availability of absentee voting and provisional ballots, not one witness showed that he or she would fail to have his vote counted in the general election. I have no idea what happened to all those people who work twelve jobs and have seventeen children. Not a single one of them showed up. 93-year-old Bea Bookler testified by video deposition. As the judge observed, she seemed quite frail and tremulous. She also qualified for absentee balloting, and if she showed up in person could cast a provisional ballot. Since the ultimate merits depend on the existence of actual people who can showed they are unconstitutionally encumbered by this law, this determination is pretty damn close to a ruling on the merits. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2245 "2012-08-15T19:47:09Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I get the Miami feed for a CBS affiliate, there is a local story there about hundreds of absentee ballots being found on a woman that worked for a political campaign. They have arrested her and the case is ongoing, I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned in any of these voter ID threads yet. > > An actual case of maybe voter fraud in Florida of all places and no one is interested? Just so you don’t think us liberals are totally ignoring your post here .. No one disputes that shenanigans like this have been occurring in elections from time to time. Problems with absentee ballots, less-than-trustworthy characters actually in charge of adding up the votes, things like this. There were several examples of this type of vote manipulation earlier in the thread. But here’s the rub … none of these examples were Voter ID Fraud. NONE of them would have been affected ONE WHIT by the ID laws being pushed upon the nation by ALEC and the GOP (a wholly-owned division of the Koch Bros, Inc.). So that’s the issue … bring us some solid examples of voter fraud that would have been prevented by these laws. Lay them out before us. Let us examine how many fraudulent votes have been cast, that would not have been allowed with these new ID restrictions. If that number is greater than the thousands of legal votes likely to be suppressed by these laws, then it’s worthwhile. Bet you can’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2246 "2012-08-15T20:01:19Z")
> [@](#): > > …this determination is pretty damn close to a ruling on the merits. So, it is, but it isn’t? Is this a common practice in the law, the Certficate of Sorta Kinda? And which **Bricker** is speaking here, the legalistic cynic or the crazy ass mofo who sincerely believes that the Democrats are bringing armies of illegal voters to subvert the Will of the People? Kinda thought he was a mirage, just you doing some personal, one on one trolling of **Lobohan**. So, before more effort is invested in a rational argument, I would like to be assured as to whether you have totally lost your shit, or just having a good yank. Of the chain, lest I be misunderstood… You don’t really believe that, right? Or no? Do we need to apply special **Bricker** filters, so that we know when you are actually speaking what you think and believe, and when you are just yanking our chains before you dive down the “just kiddin’!” hidey hole? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2247 "2012-08-15T20:13:37Z")
And this, by way of our good friend at _ThinkProgress_ (a lefty site, so if they are lying about this, the reader is encouraged to provide proof…) [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/10/670441/ohio-limits-early-voting-hours-in-democratic-counties-expands-in-republican-counties/](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/10/670441/ohio-limits-early-voting-hours-in-democratic-counties-expands-in-republican-counties/) > [@](#): > > Ohio has introduced a new tactic in their broader attempts to make it even harder for Democratic voters to get to the polls this year. Early voting stations in Ohio’s heavily Democratic counties will only be open between 8 am and 5 pm, while Republican counties have expanded their hours to allow voting on nights and weekends… Must be about “voter confidence”, or some such. It just looks like legal buggery of voter’s rights to favor a particular party, but really isn’t. Darned if I can see how that’s possible, but that’s why we have lawyers… ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2248 "2012-08-15T20:32:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have no idea what happened to all those people who work twelve jobs and have seventeen children. Not a single one of them showed up. I need a new irony meter. People who don’t have the resources to meet increased registration requirements didn’t show up for something even more abstractly related to their right to vote. Do you bother to even read what you write? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2249 "2012-08-15T23:50:24Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > I need a new irony meter. > > People who don’t have the resources to meet increased registration requirements didn’t show up for something even more abstractly related to their right to vote. > > Do you bother to even read what you write? But there were supposed to be 750,000 of them. Simple math suggests one or two should have been able to make it. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2250 "2012-08-15T23:53:53Z")
Bricker is still arguing completely retarded bullshit? Wow, I’m surprised. Idiots can be so tenacious… ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2251 "2012-08-16T00:46:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But there were supposed to be 750,000 of them. Simple math suggests one or two should have been able to make it. Silly, man! Conservatives are required to provide objective evidence. Liberals only need subjective evidence. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2252 "2012-08-16T00:49:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And this, by way of our good friend at _ThinkProgress_ (a lefty site, so if they are lying about this, the reader is encouraged to provide proof…) > > [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/10/670441/ohio-limits-early-voting-hours-in-democratic-counties-expands-in-republican-counties/](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/10/670441/ohio-limits-early-voting-hours-in-democratic-counties-expands-in-republican-counties/) > > Must be about “voter confidence”, or some such. It just looks like legal buggery of voter’s rights to favor a particular party, but really isn’t. Darned if I can see how that’s possible, but that’s why we have lawyers… The NY Times ran an editorial on this today. Then, just this afternoon, the Republican Secretary of State announced that all early voting hours would become uniform across the state. > **[Opinion | Overt Discrimination in Ohio (Published 2012)](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/15/opinion/overt-discrimination-in-ohio.html?_r=1&ref=opinion)** > > Republican elections officials curtail early voting in Democratic counties, but not in theirs. Did they think no one would notice the blatant discrimination of the Republicans’ original plan? > [@](#): > > Update: On Wednesday afternoon, Jon Husted, the Ohio Secretary of State, announced that all Ohio counties would follow a uniform early-voting policy. The policy would extend early-voting hours to 7 p.m. on weekdays during the last two weeks before the election, though all early voting is banned during the final three days of the campaign. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2253 "2012-08-16T01:22:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But there were supposed to be 750,000 of them. Simple math suggests one or two should have been able to make it. But you see there are two angles to the voter ID laws. One is new requirements. The other is the fact that many of those people don’t even know that they don’t meet the requirements. By the way, if voter fraud supposedly exists, they should have had at least 1 example of it to present in court. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2254 "2012-08-16T01:36:34Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > But you see there are two angles to the voter ID laws. One is new requirements. The other is the fact that many of those people don’t even know that they don’t meet the requirements. > > By the way, if voter fraud supposedly exists, they should have had at least 1 example of it to present in court. The law is intended to ensure voter confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2255 "2012-08-16T01:40:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The law is intended to ensure voter confidence. By keeping thousands of times as many people from voting than would have cast fraudulent votes. Keep fucking that chicken, liar. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2256 "2012-08-16T02:06:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The law is intended to ensure voter confidence. I cannot help but hear this being said in the same tone as “Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life” from The Manchurian Candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2257 "2012-08-16T02:08:58Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > By keeping thousands of times as many people from voting than would have cast fraudulent votes. > > Keep fucking that chicken, liar. Sure. Keep …er… complaining that the law requires Voter ID. Ha ha ha! ---
**Author:** ![Makeitstop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@Makeitstop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Makeitstop)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2258 "2012-08-16T02:18:22Z")
Side #1: Show us examples of voter fraud that these laws would prevent. Side #2: Well…we can’t. But they’re there! Show us examples of people who these laws will prevent from voting! Side #1: Oh they’re there. They just don’t know it. This seems to be the two sides in a nutshell. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2259 "2012-08-16T02:20:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The law is intended to ensure voter confidence. I believe the law is intended to increase the confidence of some voters. I highly doubt it increases the confidence of voters for whom the erected barriers are problematic. I also believe that anyone suggesting that voter confidence is the only or even primary intent of the law is selling something. I can see however why a lawyer might argue in favor of adding superfluous laws to the books. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2260 "2012-08-16T05:43:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The law is intended to ensure voter confidence. Sure, that’s what the lawmakers say. That’s what they tell their constituents. That may even be what said constituents believe. But is that really the _intent_? I’m suspicious. (Thus my question above, which has gone largely unanswered. Though I’d guess what you’d respond to it - and I mean that seriously, based on previous answers. I just hoped there’d be more discussion of it. Ah, well.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=112) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=114)