# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 115
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2281 "2012-08-16T15:06:05Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I’ll say it. > > If someone can’t be bothered to go and get an ID that most people get and maintain as soon as they are 16, then they should’t be voting. > > They are either an illegal immigrant, or a criminal, or just a loser. Or some combination of the three. > > The fact that these people aren’t able to vote is a good thing for democracy. > > Of course, the fact that voter confidence will increase as a result of these laws and fraudulent voting will be stopped because of these laws are true as well. But, as to people being “suppressed” by requiring a simple ID that everyone should have anyway? Cry me a river. If we turn away a couple of these bums from the polls I’m glad. If someone is too stupid to understand this issue they shouldn’t be voting. But I don’t want to disenfranchise the Republican base, that would be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2282 "2012-08-16T15:07:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Even the cross-tabs prove you wrong. Support for the measure was still high among people who reported they had read “A lot” about the issue. And high among people who answered, “To what extent, if at all, do you think SUPPORT for voter identification laws is based on an effort to boost one political party over another” with “a great deal” or “a good amount”. > > So – what’s the cite for your claim that most people aren’t fully informed? The majority support remains high even among people who are fully informed. So, having lost all your other points, you fall back to “its popular!” Can you think of any other instances where something was popular, but utterly wrong and unjust? I sure can, saw it first hand, born and raised in Texas. Saw a lot of it. Changed my mind about it when I knew better. As Abe Lincoln posted to his Facebook page, you can fool some of the people all the time, and so forth… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2283 "2012-08-16T15:09:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Even the cross-tabs prove you wrong. Support for the measure was still high among people who reported they had read “A lot” about the issue. And high among people who answered, “To what extent, if at all, do you think SUPPORT for voter identification laws is based on an effort to boost one political party over another” with “a great deal” or “a good amount”. > > So – what’s the cite for your claim that most people aren’t fully informed? The majority support remains high even among people who are fully informed. People who read a lot about the issue probably are reading retards like Krauthammer, Malkin or the other luminaries you hitch your wagon to. There is misinformation about this that is wide spread. Note that in this very thread, you tried to spread misleading innuendo about ACORN. It’s endemic and the false belief that voter fraud is omnipresent makes voter ID seem vital. But since it’s just a lie you and your other dishonest (but very, very Christian) allies are spreading, it doesn’t show that “reading a lot” about the issue means that someone is informed, unless they’re reading unbiased sources. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2284 "2012-08-16T15:18:19Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > People who read a lot about the issue probably are reading retards like Krauthammer, Malkin or the other luminaries you hitch your wagon to. That’s not a cite. That’s your guess. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2285 "2012-08-16T15:25:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s not a cite. That’s your guess. Friend Bricker, do you deny that you and your allies mislead people about this constantly? You yourself did it in this thread. The right-wing is losing because of demographic shift, so they are fighting tooth and nail though lies and misinformation to keep on top. And you’re helping them. It’s sad, that someone of such middling talent must run with the dregs, but you’ve made your choice. And turned your back on the core tenets of your faith in order to stand with people who thrive on greed and lies. In any case, I’m not sure how I’d find a cite for that, which is why I’m arguing for it. Any cites about how many cases of voter fraud there are? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2286 "2012-08-16T15:37:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Friend Bricker, do you deny that you and your allies mislead people about this constantly? Yes. > [@](#): > > You yourself did it in this thread. The right-wing is losing because of demographic shift, so they are fighting tooth and nail though lies and misinformation to keep on top. No, I didn’t. > [@](#): > > In any case, I’m not sure how I’d find a cite for that, which is why I’m arguing for it. Any cites about how many cases of voter fraud there are? You could find a survey that has cross-tabs that support your position: people who know a lot about the law don’t support it, while people that know about the law do support it. But since that isn’t the case, there are no such surveys. Instead, as I have cited, the survey data shows that support for the law remains high, regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2287 "2012-08-16T15:38:34Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Why does intent matter? Most other countries have these requirements. Were they all implemented for nefarious reasons? Yet the end result will be the same: Stricter voting requirements. _shrug_ I was addressing **Bricker’s** statement. At any rate, I’d guess that in “most other countries,” said laws were not implemented by one particular political party for the purpose of suppressing the vote of a rival party, that said laws were probably written and implemented in a fair manner regardless of expected party and socioeconomic status, and that in at least some cases, reasonable accommodations were made to actually HELP those without ID. As an aside, your reply is part of the response I actually predicted for **Bricker** (again, given previous statements on related subjects). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2288 "2012-08-16T15:47:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > … Instead, as I have cited, the survey data shows that support for the law remains high, regardless. Is this, then, the **Bricker** Standard? The justice of a thing can be best determined by its popularity? Segregation and racism were _real_ popular in the time and place I grew up in. Still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2289 "2012-08-16T16:07:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Is this, then, the **Bricker** Standard? The justice of a thing can be best determined by its popularity? Segregation and racism were _real_ popular in the time and place I grew up in. Still wrong. In a representative democracy, the will of the people is the basis for the legitimacy of government and the source of the laws government makes. The burden to show that the will of people is somehow breaching a Higher Law is on you. If I said that abortion was simply wrong, and should be outlawed, what would your response be? If I rejected the court and legislative decisions that made abortion legal, and still insisted it was Wrong and needed to be outlawed, pointing out that segregation and racism were once legal, what’s your response? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2290 "2012-08-16T16:10:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. How meta. > [@](#): > > No, I didn’t. Of course you did: > [@Bricker](#): > > ACORN was definitely guilty of election law violation. Absolute certainty. Here you interject when I mention that many on the right think ACORN was responsible for voter fraud. So you throw that out there to support that contention. You do know that this shit is written down, right? So, you’re a liar and you sow dishonest misinformation when it suits you. We all know this. > [@](#): > > You could find a survey that has cross-tabs that support your position: people who know a lot about the law don’t support it, while people that know about the law do support it. > > But since that isn’t the case, there are no such surveys. Instead, as I have cited, the survey data shows that support for the law remains high, regardless. And I contend that because of un-Christian liars like yourself, people don’t understand what it is they’re supporting. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2291 "2012-08-16T16:46:29Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > How meta. > > Of course you did: > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > ACORN was definitely guilty of election law violation. Absolute certainty. > > Here you interject when I mention that many on the right think ACORN was responsible for voter fraud. So you throw that out there to support that contention. > > You do know that this shit is written down, right? So, you’re a liar and you sow dishonest misinformation when it suits you. We all know this. And in fact my statement is absolute truth: ACORN was definitely guilty of election law violation. Do you deny it? My statement is precisely and absolutely accurate. ACORN was definitely guilty of election law violation. > [@](#): > > And I contend that because of un-Christian liars like yourself, people don’t understand what it is they’re supporting. Who cares? You have no data. You’re simply spewing shit. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2292 "2012-08-16T16:52:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And in fact my statement is absolute truth: ACORN was definitely guilty of election law violation. > > Do you deny it? > > My statement is precisely and absolutely accurate. ACORN was definitely guilty of election law violation. So Bricker, why haven’t you made a denial of the allegations that you raped a piglet at the petting zoo? Is it factual that you haven’t denied those allegations? You’re spewing misinformation and confounding the issue. I don’t need to tell you this, because the _ain’t I a stinker_ smile you had on your face while you typed those words suggest that you know it. > [@](#): > > Who cares? You have no data. You’re simply spewing shit. I care that I’m not lying, and you are. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2293 "2012-08-16T17:23:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So Bricker, why haven’t you made a denial of the allegations that you raped a piglet at the petting zoo? > > Is it factual that you haven’t denied those allegations? You’re spewing misinformation and confounding the issue. I don’t need to tell you this, because the _ain’t I a stinker_ smile you had on your face while you typed those words suggest that you know it. > > I care that I’m not lying, and you are. ACORN was guilty of election law violations. True? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2294 "2012-08-16T17:24:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > ACORN was guilty of election law violations. True? You haven’t denied raping that piglet. True? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2295 "2012-08-16T17:25:22Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So Bricker, why haven’t you made a denial of the allegations that you raped a piglet at the petting zoo? No one’s made any such allegations that I have seen, so I haven’t denied them. > [@](#): > > Is it factual that you haven’t denied those allegations? Yes. > [@](#): > > You’re spewing misinformation and confounding the issue. There’s nothing remotely incorrect about saying that ACORN was guilty of election law violations. You just hate being reminded of it. You can’t even admit it, can you? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2296 "2012-08-16T17:33:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No one’s made any such allegations that I have seen, so I haven’t denied them. > > Yes. > > There’s nothing remotely incorrect about saying that ACORN was guilty of election law violations. You just hate being reminded of it. > > You can’t even admit it, can you? We’ve already discussed it. I said, “conservatives still think ACORN was responsible for voter fraud.” I said that because this notion was put into place by lying right-wing media, and people like you. You said, with no elaboration, “ACORN was definitely guilty of election law violation. Absolute certainty.” This creates the suggestion that you are correcting me. It insinuates that ACORN did in fact commit voter fraud. But, as you well know, one branch of ACORN broke a local law because they had a bonus for hitting a production goal. This wasn’t done in secret, it appears to have been done by sheer ignorance on the part of the director of that one branch. So what would a person who was honest say when I said “conservatives still think ACORN was responsible for voter fraud?” An honest person might say, "That is a common misconception. The only thing ACORN did wrong was to violate a local law by accident. And it certainly didn’t lead to any fraudulent votes. You’re a liar, Bricker. You’d burn in hell if your Jewish carpenter were real. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2297 "2012-08-16T18:57:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So the answers to my questions are…? > > (For review, here they are again, yes or no to:) > > Voter registration efforts limited to poor, urban areas, such as those conduced by ACORN, led to higher Democratic vote proportions. > > Democratic politicians who assisted ACORN’s efforts did so to get that higher Dmeocratic result. I think Acorn was genearlly a bunch of twits who demand equality of outcome and not merely equality of opportunity but there is a world of difference between “get out the vote” and voter suppression. One encourages people to participate in their democracy, the other throws obstacles in your way, sure they’re not insurmountable obstacles but they are obstacles designed to reduce participation, among other things, minorities. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2298 "2012-08-16T19:27:37Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > We’ve already discussed it. > > I said, “conservatives still think ACORN was responsible for voter fraud.” I said that because this notion was put into place by lying right-wing media, and people like you. > > You said, with no elaboration, “ACORN was definitely guilty of election law violation. Absolute certainty.” > > This creates the suggestion that you are correcting me. It insinuates that ACORN did in fact commit voter fraud. Oh, so now it’s merely a suggestion I made that you don’t like. It’s not my fault you’re too fucking stupid to read. I’m guessing you went to a school staffed by unionized teachers? One where they praised your self-esteem instead of making you learn to read? > [@](#): > > An honest person might say, "That is a common misconception. The only thing ACORN did wrong was to violate a local law by accident. And it certainly didn’t lead to any fraudulent votes. “By accident?” BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! And by “local law” do you mean some city ordinance, or a law of the state of Nevada? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2299 "2012-08-16T19:29:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think Acorn was genearlly a bunch of twits who demand equality of outcome and not merely equality of opportunity but there is a world of difference between “get out the vote” and voter suppression. > > One encourages people to participate in their democracy, the other throws obstacles in your way, sure they’re not insurmountable obstacles but they are obstacles designed to reduce participation, among other things, minorities. And one was designed to increase voter participation by minorities. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2300 "2012-08-16T19:33:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Oh, so now it’s merely a suggestion I made that you don’t like. No, it’s the fact that you laid that out there trying to sow misinformation. You’re a liar and I’ve shown it directly. > [@](#): > > It’s not my fault you’re too fucking stupid to read. I’m guessing you went to a school staffed by unionized teachers? I know how to read, Bricker. Do you know how to think? Did your parents even try to build a moral center into you? You’re a liar and you don’t care. It doesn’t bother me much, it just underlines your causal hypocrisy. > [@](#): > > “By accident?” > > BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! By accident, meaning it was based on ignorance of the local law. Do you have some evidence that he intended to hide his crime? It was done in full view of his subcontractors, right? If I move to a new state and don’t realize something is illegal, I am of course responsible, but it’s not a conspiracy to subvert the law, it’s incompetence. And it certainly doesn’t represent voter fraud, which is what you suggested. > [@](#): > > And by “local law” do you mean some city ordinance, or a law of the state of Nevada? You know what I mean, dipshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=114) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=116)