# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 118
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2341 "2012-08-19T00:48:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Selective ignorance honed to a razor sharp edge. Gee, when I was advancing the idea that selective ignorance was invalid as a defense, you sure seemed to be on the other guy’s side. You change your mind? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2342 "2012-08-19T01:02:07Z")
Remember when all you guys thought Bricker had something resembling morals? I totally hated him before it was popular. [/hipster\_lobohan] ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2343 "2012-08-19T01:29:42Z")
I’m _ridiculously_ drunk and even I can see that bricker is a gigantic douchenozzle Like, it’s funny. He’s really really really really really really really really really dumb And he doesn’t see it Lol ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2344 "2012-08-19T01:52:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Remember when all you guys thought Bricker had something resembling morals? I totally hated him before it was popular. [/hipster\_lobohan] Hell, I was on his Ignore list before you even knew who he _was_. Puppy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2345 "2012-08-19T02:13:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Gee, when I was advancing the idea that selective ignorance was invalid as a defense, you sure seemed to be on the other guy’s side. > > You change your mind? Oh, Bleeding Og, its liberal hypocrisy, isn’t it! Shit, he got me again with the liberal hypocrisy! What is that, eight hundred and fifty three times, now? Damn! Actually, I’m not at all sure what you are talking about, here. I mean, I know you got me good, for sure, just not at all sure about what. Haven’t the foggiest, actually. Which is pretty much ok, you can just go ahead and gloat, we can leave it like that. Up to you, really. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2346 "2012-08-19T02:48:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, Bleeding Og, its liberal hypocrisy, isn’t it! Shit, he got me again with the liberal hypocrisy! What is that, eight hundred and fifty three times, now? Damn! > > Actually, I’m not at all sure what you are talking about, here. I mean, I know you got me good, for sure, just not at all sure about what. Haven’t the foggiest, actually. Which is pretty much ok, you can just go ahead and gloat, we can leave it like that. Up to you, really. Well, now you you know how many of us feel when reading most of your posts. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2347 "2012-08-19T02:59:27Z")
Ain’t nobody forcing you, hoss. I’ll get over it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2348 "2012-08-19T05:11:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ain’t nobody forcing you, hoss. I’ll get over it. It’s not about me. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2349 "2012-08-19T06:48:36Z")
You know out of curiosity I checked out the requirements in the country I live in that requires voter ID. You are automatically registered to vote when you apply for your national ID, for a citizen born in the nation all you need is a birth certificate to get this ID, your first ID is free and replacements cost 1.50 USD. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2350 "2012-08-19T09:01:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > See, in the United States, the federal government has limited, enumerated powers. Where it has powers, it is supreme. But unless the Constitution grants it power, it has none. States, in contrast, have plenary power: they can legislate on any subject at all. For something as important as “voter confidence” to counter the epidemic of (non-existent) voter fraud I would expect Republican legislators to be calling for nothing less than a Constitutional amendment. They’ve already tried adding an amendment [denying civil rights to approximately 10% of the population who are gay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Marriage_Amendment), so why not deny civil rights to a few million more? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2351 "2012-08-19T13:56:25Z")
> [@grude](#): > > You know out of curiosity I checked out the requirements in the country I live in that requires voter ID. > > You are automatically registered to vote when you apply for your national ID, for a citizen born in the nation all you need is a birth certificate to get this ID, your first ID is free and replacements cost 1.50 USD. A majority of countries have some sort of compulsory national ID card. Among the exceptions, most have some sort of voluntary national ID card. The U.S.A. can’t do this. It is the _Land of the Free™_. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2352 "2012-08-19T14:02:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I said: > > > [@](#): > > > > And since the plan in Ohio was not implemented, I have no idea what the defense of it, if any, might have been. If the Rationalists had tried a stunt like Ohio’s you would have soiled your pants in your eagerness to say “See? You guys do it too.” When your Team of Hypocrites does it, you look for some lawyer’s out why you shouldn’t need to comment. I know you used to be a million-dollar-a-year criminal lawyer. Between you and your clients, I’m curious who taught scumbaggery to whom. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2353 "2012-08-19T14:15:39Z")
> [@Skip](#): > > For something as important as “voter confidence” to counter the epidemic of (non-existent) voter fraud I would expect Republican legislators to be calling for nothing less than a Constitutional amendment. > > They’ve already tried adding an amendment [denying civil rights to approximately 10% of the population who are gay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Marriage_Amendment), so why not deny civil rights to a few million more? The failure to attempt adding an amendment does not support an inference that such an amendment isn’t wanted. Indeed, I am sure that Republicans would love a federal voting amendment that required photo IDs. And in truth, I am not completely sure they haven’t. There have been over 11,000 amendments proposed but not passed by Congress or ratified, about 400 since 2000. I can’t remember hearing of one on this subject, but I sure haven’t heard of 400 different ones, either. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2354 "2012-08-19T14:17:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > If the Rationalists had tried a stunt like Ohio’s you would have soiled your pants in your eagerness to say “See? You guys do it too.” When your Team of Hypocrites does it, you look for some lawyer’s out why you shouldn’t need to comment. > > I know you used to be a million-dollar-a-year criminal lawyer. Between you and your clients, I’m curious who taught scumbaggery to whom. I wish. I used to be a public defender. My only shot at a million dollars a year during that time involved the lottery numbers. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2355 "2012-08-19T14:20:47Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > A majority of countries have some sort of compulsory national ID card. Among the exceptions, most have some sort of voluntary national ID card. > > The U.S.A. can’t do this. It is the _Land of the Free™_. It isn’t mandatory, but it functions like a driver’s license does in the US so you’ll want one if you plan to function as an adult. No law is holding a gun to your head. Germany it is mandatory to have an ID card, YET police cannot demand you produce it. So…how that will be enforced is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2356 "2012-08-19T15:23:19Z")
> [@grude](#): > > It isn’t mandatory, but it functions like a driver’s license does in the US so you’ll want one if you plan to function as an adult. No law is holding a gun to your head. > Germany it is mandatory to have an ID card, YET police cannot demand you produce it. So…how that will be enforced is beyond me. I’m sure if they arrest you for something else they can go through your things then. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2357 "2012-08-20T01:36:28Z")
[Yet another Pub spills the beans:](http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/08/19/711551/gop-election-board-member-admits-he-canceled-weekend-voting-in-ohio-to-suppress-the-black-vote/) > [@](#): > > Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted’s recent decision to prohibit early voting on nights and weekends in all districts has many concerned about the effect on voter turnout in the state, particularly among low-income and minority communities. But one Republican Party chairman is content to suppress votes among this vulnerable demographic. Doug Preisse, chairman of the Republican Party in Franklin County, which contains the city of Columbus, admitted in an email to the Columbus Dispatch that black voters would now have a more difficult time voting: > > > [@](#): > > > > I guess I really actually feel **we shouldn’t contort the voting process to accommodate the urban — read African-American — voter-turnout machine.** Let’s be fair and reasonable. > > Preisse was one of the board of elections members who blocked Democratic efforts in Franklin County to expand voting hours to evenings and weekends. According to the Dispatch, he called claims of unfairness “bullshit. Quote me!” :rolleyes: In partisan-neutral civic-democratic terms, Mr. Preisse, a “voter-turnout machine” is an unequivocally **good** thing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2358 "2012-08-21T14:28:59Z")
[http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/08/the\_fake\_voter\_fraud\_epidemic\_and\_the\_2012\_electio.php?ref=fpblg](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/08/the_fake_voter_fraud_epidemic_and_the_2012_electio.php?ref=fpblg) Of special interest to fans of political cunning, skulduggery, and the Rovian arts of rat-fuck…and who isn’t?..this article posted by _Talking Points Memo_ (without which no citizen dare hope to be well-informed). It concerns the rise and rise of the Fraudulent Fraud Squad (not their real name), and concerns the efforts of a hearty band of Republican operatives to alert a slumbering America to the grave threat of voter fraud. Many of your favorite characters make appearances…Hans Spastickovsky, Michelle Malkin, and many others less familiar to fans of slime mold. Of special interest to our subject, the American Center for Voting Rights (ACVR) which… > [@](#): > > …created a phony think tank, the “American Center for Voting Rights” to testify before a congressional committee and push the line that “voter fraud” was rampant. (The term “voter fraud” is actually relatively new, and more election crimes appear to be committed by election officials and party operatives than voters.) > > ACVR relied upon discredited allegations of election fraud, and upon proven evidence of voter registration fraud. Some of the allegations had racial undertones, such as a focus on a false registration of “Mr. Jive F. Turkey, Sr.” … Further… > [@](#): > > …ACVR eventually disappeared in the dark of night, with the website coming down without warning and Thor Hearne scrubbing his resume of references to his organization. But by then many on the right were pushing the voter fraud line hard. For example Dick Armey claimed that 3% of votes cast were fraudulent Democratic votes and that the problem was especially bad in “urban areas” in the “inner cities.” Michele Malkin suggested that voter fraud would infect the 2010 elections, but she abandoned the claim when Republicans gave Democrats a “thumping” in that election… Well, no, one doesn’t scream about voter fraud when one wins, now does one? > [@](#): > > …Importantly, Republicans tied their claims of voter fraud to ostensible fraud prevention measures which would be most likely to depress Democratic turnout, but they ignored measures which would actually combat real problems of fraud. So Republicans pushed hard for voter identification laws, which would prevent one person from impersonating another at the polls… Of special local interest in the People’s Republic of Minnesota… > [@](#): > > …More recently, von Spakovsky and his co-author John Fund wrote a book in which they rely on wholly discredited allegations that fraudulent voting was responsible for Al Franken’s win in Minnesota over Norm Coleman in the recount and litigation over the disputed Minnesota U.S. Senate race… The article is chock-a-block with links to sources, documents, all that sort of good stuff. Want to know how “voter fraud” became the obsessive figment of a tiny Republican imagination? Start here. Joe Bob \*\*'luc \*\*says “Check it out!” Immediately. At once! Put that down, and go read it. Tremble, and obey! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2359 "2012-08-21T14:35:31Z")
Addenda: see also the Wikepedia page for this organization: > **[American Center for Voting Rights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Center_for_Voting_Rights)** > > The American Center for Voting Rights (ACVR) was a non-profit organization founded by Mark F. "Thor" Hearne that operated from March 2005 to May 2007 and pushed for laws to reduce voter intimidation and voter fraud, and supported requiring photo ID for voters. > ACVR was founded in Midlothian, Virginia, as "a non-partisan 501(c)(3) legal and education organization committed to defending the rights of voters and working to increase public confidence in the fairness and outcome of elections" and d... ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2360 "2012-08-22T02:10:38Z")
> [@Makeitstop](#): > > Side #1: Show us examples of voter fraud that these laws would prevent. > Side #2: Well…we can’t. But they’re there! Actually, we can. Here’s a great [example.](http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/29/mississippi-naacp-leader-sent-to-prison-for-10-counts-of-voter-fraud/). Here’s a whole [list of examples.](http://www.rnla.org/votefraud.asp) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=117) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=119)