# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 125
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2481 "2012-09-25T23:45:20Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What about those people who don’t “choose not to vote because they can’t be arsed to get a free ID” but rather are unable to vote because they can’t get the proper ID because they work two or three jobs during the hours the ID centers are open or because they are elderly, can’t drive, and don’t have an ID center in their county? Are they countable as a suppressed vote? > > Maybe “can’t be arsed” is actually some obscure legal term that includes those kinds of circumstances, in which case I bow to your superior knowledge counselor. > > ETA: Cite, before anyone asks for it. [Inquirer.com archives](http://articles.philly.com/2012-08-05/news/33036156_1_penndot-facility-penndot-id-penndot-centers) Sorry, but that’s liberal fantasy nonsense. There are no people who work two or three jobs during the hours that the ID centers are open, over the weeks that the ID requirement has existed. None. If they don’t have an ID center in their county then they go to the next county – an 18 mile trip, according to your link. That’s a minimal inconvenience. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2482 "2012-09-25T23:47:38Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why would you think that? > > I think that Crawford should have been overturned under article 2 of the Voting Rights Act but given the instruction of the higher court, why would the trial level judge do the same damn thing? That would be just begging to get overturned, wouldn’t it? Not at all. The trial judge gets to make a factual determination. That’s essentially unreviewable by the higher court. I get it – you don’t like Crawford. Too bad: Crawford is the law. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2483 "2012-09-25T23:49:07Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because you’re a partisan hypocrite piece of shit. Now why not run off in failure and scream about how you’ve won, coward. Failure??? Look around you. Look at all the states with voter ID laws. “If this be failure, let us make the most of it.” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2484 "2012-09-25T23:51:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not at all. The trial judge gets to make a factual determination. That’s essentially unreviewable by the higher court. > > I get it – you don’t like Crawford. Too bad: Crawford is the law. Funfact: When slavery was legal, Bricker was pro-slavery. When mixed race marriages were illegal, Bricker was against mixed race marriages. I only assume he’s pro abortion. Because legal is the same thing as right, ain’t that so you silly bitch? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2485 "2012-09-25T23:52:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Failure??? > > Look around you. Look at all the states with voter ID laws. > > “If this be failure, let us make the most of it.” You’re the failure Bricker. Because you can’t argue your position. And you’re doing the exact thing I was mocking you for in the post you quoted. You’re not the person your dog thinks you are. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2486 "2012-09-26T00:58:46Z")
“It’s the law, so it is right.” The last refuge of the authoritarian coward, whose moral core is created, changed and controlled by others. Who follows orders, no matter how vile, as long as they are coming from an authority figure. Who do not question, because asking questions is an affront to authority, and must therefore be quashed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2487 "2012-09-26T02:31:28Z")
OK, now, hold up there, hoss. **Bricker** is obnoxiously and stubbornly wrong. But he’s not getting fitted for an SS uniform, or anything. But, so long as we are on the subject, from the wild-eyed radicals at DailyKos (thinkProgress has another much the same…) > **[Study: Suppressing the Latino vote could provide the margin of victory in...](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/25/1135956/-Study-Suppressing-the-Latino-vote-could-provide-the-margin-of-victory-in-some-states?detail=hide)** > > Around 25 million Latinos are eligible to cast ballots in the United States this year, which is more than 10 percent of the nation's total voting-age population. Latinos are reportedly ... **Study: Suppressing the Latino Vote Could Provide the Margin of Victory in Some States** > [@](#): > > …A new study released Monday by the non-partisan Advancement Project concludes, however, that millions of them could be kept from voting because of restrictive new laws in nearly half the states. The project has been involved in litigation, some of it successful, to try to block the worst of these laws. > > The report, “Segregating American Citizenship,” found large numbers of Latinos could be disenfranchised because of voter-roll purges in 16 states, laws requiring proof of citizenship in three states and mandated photo-IDs in nine states. An estimated 16 percent of Latinos don’t have the required ID, the study found… The article goes into some degree of depth not reflected in the “money quote”, as well as an interesting wrinkle involving Puerto Rican citizens, and the peculiar circumstances of their voter eligibility. Your correspondent from the conservative wing of the extreme left makes no guarantee about these folks, never heard of them before now. But even if they are exaggerating, unless it is an exaggeration of galactic proportions, this may prove to be a much more serious situation than a principled dispute about voting rights. Make the Florida Debacle look like Romper Room. And there really are no good outcomes, only less vile ones. Anyone who goes to the polls to vote and is turned away due to a legalistic maneuver by corrupt Republicans is not likely to forget it, any time soon. Their “voter confidence” will be compromised, to say the least. And they will know who to blame. If the Republicans scam a one-time political victory out of this, they will be writing their political suicide note. No honest conservative could be anything but ashamed and disgusted. (Barry Goldwater will rise from his grave and hitchhike to the nearest border). They will arouse a permanent state of hostility among the brown, the liberal, and the sane. If they do all of this and lose power _anyway_, they will be, to use the technical term, “boned”. Karma is a bitch, payback is worse, and vengeance? Oh, my. But either way it will put a stink on us all. A bad one. There will be great disorder under Heaven, and the situation will totally bite. Even if a goodly number of Republicans have second thoughts, its too late, the laws were passed, and even if they could back out now, some damage is already done in this Phallic Victory. This may be their only practical chance to win. But sheer momentum will carry them forward, the thing is already rolling downhill, the troops are mobilized, amassing at the railroads, the drums of madness drowning good sense on all sides. \* The Guns of August\*, only November. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2488 "2012-09-26T02:47:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Anyone who goes to the polls to vote and is turned away due to a legalistic maneuver by corrupt Republicans is not likely to forget it, any time soon. Their “voter confidence” will be compromised, to say the least. And they will know who to blame. I seem to remember saying something similar to this earlier on. At least something about how the Democrats could and should be leveraging the situation to their benefit. I might have added something along the lines of they won’t because they are a bunch of do-nothing whingers, but that is a given.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2489 "2012-09-26T02:55:39Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I seem to remember saying something similar to this earlier on. At least something about how the Democrats could and should be leveraging the situation to their benefit. I might have added something along the lines of they won’t because they are a bunch of do-nothing whingers, but that is a given.😛 Dems are using this to drive voter turnout. But it’s easier to obstruct than it is to run around. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2490 "2012-09-26T12:14:35Z")
Simpson has indicated that he may block the law. [http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/20120926\_Judge\_hints\_he\_may\_block\_Pennsylvania\_voter\_ID.html](http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/20120926_Judge_hints_he_may_block_Pennsylvania_voter_ID.html) > [@](#): > > Judge hints he may block Pennsylvania voter ID > … > “I’m giving you a heads-up,” Commonwealth Court Judge Robert E. Simpson Jr. told lawyers after a day’s testimony on whether the law is being implemented in ways that ensure no voters will be disenfranchised. “I think it’s a possibility there could be an injunction here.” > > Simpson then asked lawyers on both sides to be prepared to return to court Thursday to present arguments on what such an injunction should look like. There is no hearing Wednesday because of Yom Kippur. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2491 "2012-09-26T15:42:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And this just in, for anybody who didn’t already know… > > [http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-look-voter-fraud-little-172327169--election.html](http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-look-voter-fraud-little-172327169--election.html) > > **Republicans look for voter fraud, find little** > > Very, very little. Same conclusion reached by the right leaning Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal. [http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/in-the-fight-against-voter-fraud-the-gop-finds-little-5q70bbj-171252201.html](http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/in-the-fight-against-voter-fraud-the-gop-finds-little-5q70bbj-171252201.html) > [@](#): > > Maybe someday, the Republicans howling about voter fraud will come clean and acknowledge what is really going on: It’s a Republican fraud - one designed to discourage Democratic voters from exercising the franchise. > > There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. None. > > Yet around the country, Republicans have pushed for heavy-handed measures to combat it. Fortunately, in Wisconsin, voter ID will not be in place for the November election. The Republican-sponsored law is tied up in the courts. But that is not the case elsewhere. And fraud that has been found usually involves registration not ID fraud. Hard to believe this paper endorsed Scott Walker - twice, and probably will endorse Mitt Romney and Tommy Thompson. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2492 "2012-09-26T15:59:36Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Hard to believe this paper endorsed Scott Walker - twice, and probably will endorse Mitt Romney and Tommy Thompson. The end justifies the means. Anyway, if it’s legal, it is perfectly moral and fine to disenfranchise voters based on their proclivity to vote for the “wrong” party. Don’tcha know. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2493 "2012-09-26T19:55:08Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > But it’s easier to obstruct than it is to run around. And far, \*far \*easier than to persuade. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2494 "2012-09-27T21:53:41Z")
For whatever it’s worth: > **[Inquirer.com archives](https://www.inquirer.com/archives/)** > [@](#): > > A retired CEO can’t top voter ID hurdles > DeCarlo, 72, is the recently retired CEO of a billion-dollar suburban company, which he doesn’t want to name because of the unwarranted attention it may receive. The only reason I mention it is to illustrate that even folks you wouldn’t even think would have a problem, those who you’d think would have all of their documentation, could get caught in the voter ID web. In DeCarlo’s own words: > [@](#): > > \*The DMV clerk suggested he would change my driver’s license to conform to the voter registration. … I completed a form and was asked to pay $13.50 by money order. They don’t accept cash or cards. He said there was a store nearby where I could buy a money order. … > > When I returned to complete the transaction, I was told by this same clerk that he made an error. His supervisor told him my driver’s license would have to conform to my passport, since that is proof of citizenship. This wouldn’t solve my problem in conforming the driver’s license with the voter registration name. …\* Decarlo then contacted the office of Republican state representative Milne. > [@](#): > > A Milne staff member told DeCarlo that the office had received so many complaints that “the representative realizes he made a mistake and wishes he could take his vote back.” I can only quote 4 paragraphs but it’s not a long article so you can read the whole thing. He was told by the offices his state rep and state senator that he was okay as long as the names were substantially the same, but why didn’t the workers at the DMV know that? I guess retired CEO Anthony DeCarlo is a lazy Democrat who “can’t be arsed” to get a free ID. Maybe it would help if somebody somewhere could be arsed to give him a straight answer without him having to contact his elected representatives. He’s someone who has the time and resources to do what needs to be done (if he can figure out what that is). What happens to somebody without his education and resources? What happens to somebody who does what they’re told to do by some poorly trained DMV clerk and then finds out on election day that they were told the wrong thing? What happens if there are hundreds or thousands of people like this, holding up the lines at the poll? But hey, if you can’t be arsed to fight the bureaucracy tooth and nail for your right to vote - if you can’t be arsed to spend hours at the DMV only to be given bad advice, I guess you’re arsed! (Now someone will come along and attack me as a boohoo crybaby or as someone who wants to let illegals vote and that anyone who doesn’t have the time and resources to fight this battle is un-American and doesn’t deserve to vote.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2495 "2012-09-28T18:51:30Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I guess retired CEO Anthony DeCarlo is a lazy Democrat who “can’t be arsed” to get a free ID. Maybe it would help if somebody somewhere could be arsed to give him a straight answer without him having to contact his elected representatives. The law clearly permits him to use his passport as an ID. The law clearly permits him to use his driver’s license as an ID. He has both of those already. He has no problem, except in the minds of desperate liberals hoping against hope they find someone with a legitimate gripe. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2496 "2012-09-28T19:09:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The law clearly permits him to use his passport as an ID. The law clearly permits him to use his driver’s license as an ID. He has both of those already. He has no problem, except in the minds of desperate liberals hoping against hope they find someone with a legitimate gripe. The original letter quoted in the cited article says that he took his passport with him, yet still had to jump through hoops. I’d say that his problem disn’t only exist in the minds of frenzied liberals, but was a real issue caused by inadequately informed bureaucrats. You can argue that this _shouldn’t_ be a problem, that the clerks ought to have been properly informed and trained (and I quite agree with that), but it seems that the practical reality is that this WAS a problem for him. And who knows for how many more who might find out when it’s too late. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2497 "2012-09-28T19:10:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The law clearly permits him to use his passport as an ID. The law clearly permits him to use his driver’s license as an ID. He has both of those already. He has no problem, except in the minds of desperate liberals hoping against hope they find someone with a legitimate gripe. The article describes his problems. They appear to be real. Are you saying the article is fiction? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2498 "2012-09-28T20:19:35Z")
[And it gets worse, especially in Florida.](http://www.thenation.com/article/170187/has-florida-created-trap-polls-ex-felons) > [@](#): > > [Yvette Lewis, the political action chair of the Hillsborough County NAACP] runs into Blair Bass, a 44-year-old customer service attendant. He was released from prison in 2009 for a felony conviction from 2001. Upon release, he says he was notified by the state’s elections division that his voting rights had been restored. A few months ago, Bass received another letter from the county telling him that he’s no longer eligible to vote because of his felony conviction. This confused him, because the county had also just sent him his voter identification card. He displays it from his wallet; it shows he registered in April 2011. > > Bass wants to know if he should vote in November, but Lewis can’t be sure if he qualifies. She’s worked for years trying to get more black people to the polls, so it pains her to say what comes next. She tells Bass, as she has many others like him, not to vote. > > Lewis fears that the former felons are headed into a “trap” set for them, and for the whole voting rights movement—one in which confused felons could end up in legal trouble and accused of voter fraud. Her suspicions are not unfounded. An organization called Tampa Vote Fair has been besieging the county supervisor of elections with alarmist cries of ex-felon voter fraud. No such fraud has been found in the county, but the group has managed to cloud public opinion on its existence either way. And thanks to multiple changes in election law since 2007—including draconian new measures signed by Governor Rick Scott in 2011—state and county election officials seem just as confused about which ex-felons can and cannot vote. > > \ > > Before 2007, Florida was one of three states that permanently disenfranchised all ex-felons. But Governor Charlie Crist amended the rules so that nonviolent ex-felons could more easily have their voting rights restored. According to the Brennan Center for Justice, the voting rights of more than 150,000 Floridians were restored as a result. > > As soon as Scott took office in 2011, he began to reverse Crist’s reforms. Now, those with non-serious felonies have to wait five years after release from jail (seven years for serious felonies) before they can be considered for rights restoration—and then only if they’ve been crime-free during that period. In addition, Scott expanded the serious felonies list to include other crimes, notably those involving drug trafficking. If you have unpaid restitution, you’re ineligible for restoration, and to apply for a hearing, you must obtain copies of all original court documents connected with your case. By the end of 2011, only seventy-eight former felons had had their voting rights restored under Scott’s new rules, as reported by the Florida ACLU. > > For those who have had their rights restored, even as carry-overs from the Crist administration, few are aware that they can, in fact, vote. A few days after the picnic, Lewis is in the NAACP office sorting through sheets of names of people who have contacted her over the past few weeks about their access to the vote. Many of them have received conflicting information from the county, and they need Lewis to help them sort it out. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2499 "2012-09-28T22:09:00Z")
Forget it, **BrainGlutton**. It’s obviously their own lazy ass fault, or liberal’s imagination, or who the hell knows what else. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2500 "2012-09-29T02:22:09Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > The article describes his problems. They appear to be real. Are you saying the article is fiction? The article does not explain why he believed he needed any additional ID, does it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=124) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=126)