# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 140
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2781 "2012-10-30T19:09:12Z")
Winning! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2782 "2012-10-30T20:07:39Z")
Bricker: shit-peanuts. Bring a spoon. One Bricker, two cups. ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2783 "2012-10-30T20:08:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have already answered these questions, but am happy to do so again. > > The mere fact that an act discourages Democratic voters is not enough for me to condemn it. For example, if I said, “Those who intend to vote Democratic in 2012 are unmitigated poopy heads!” and you were to later prove that my statement discouraged some democratic voters, I would not be chagrined. But doesn’t the degree matter in this case? I don’t think anyone here would argue with you over your elegant poopyhead example. But what if 10,000 voters discover they need to spend $35 on a birth certificate in order to apply for their new ID, and decide that though they’d like to vote, they’d rather have bread on the table or gas in the car this week? Would you be chagrined then? Or what if an equal number of voters can only get their ID-related paperwork by spending 5 hours traveling/waiting in line during business hours, and their boss at the convenience store has told them they’ll be fired if they’re not at the counter? They’d like to vote, too, but at best they lose 5 hours of pay, and at worst they lose their jobs? They won’t risk that, and so they don’t vote. Worthy of chagrin? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2784 "2012-10-30T21:08:23Z")
Hell, he’s chagrining from ear to ear. Comrade. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2785 "2012-10-30T22:50:40Z")
> [@Parthol](#): > > But doesn’t the degree matter in this case? I don’t think anyone here would argue with you over your elegant poopyhead example. But what if 10,000 voters discover they need to spend $35 on a birth certificate in order to apply for their new ID, and decide that though they’d like to vote, they’d rather have bread on the table or gas in the car this week? Would you be chagrined then? > > Or what if an equal number of voters can only get their ID-related paperwork by spending 5 hours traveling/waiting in line during business hours, and their boss at the convenience store has told them they’ll be fired if they’re not at the counter? They’d like to vote, too, but at best they lose 5 hours of pay, and at worst they lose their jobs? They won’t risk that, and so they don’t vote. Worthy of chagrin? Or, perhaps more relevantly, what if it’s before the election, and there’s reasonable cause to believe that some or all of the above MIGHT happen, but it’s hard to prove it, by definition, because nothing’s happened yet… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2786 "2012-10-31T00:32:32Z")
[But, wait, it gets worse.](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/10/30/1106961/romney-wisconsin-poll-watchers/) ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2787 "2012-11-03T13:39:40Z")
[From the Las Vegas Sun](http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/nov/02/southern-nevada-woman-arrested-suspicion-trying-vo/) > [@](#): > > Investigators today arrested a Southern Nevada woman suspected of trying to vote twice this week at two different polling locations. > > Roxanne Rubin was taken into custody as she arrived for work at the Riviera hotel-casino, investigators said. Rubin, 56, is a **registered Republican** who lives in Henderson, according to the Clark County Registrar. [From the Willamette Week](http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-29390-department_of_justice_investigating_alleged_ballot_fraud_at_clackamas_county_elections.html) > [@](#): > > A Clackamas County elections worker is under criminal investigation for tampering with ballots, WW has learned. > > The underlying allegation is that the woman, whose name has not been released, filled in blanks on ballots turned into the county for the Nov. 6 general election. > > Sources familiar with the incident say their understanding is that the woman **filled in a straight Republican ticket** on the ballots where preferences had been left blank by voters. I think the technical term for this is called ‘projection’. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2788 "2012-11-03T16:03:25Z")
No, projection is subsconscious. This is simply distraction. And it isn’t working, either. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2789 "2012-11-05T13:21:52Z")
Seems some guy in NC posted on his Facebook page that he has already voted four times for Obama, in different precincts, and plans to do so again. But I’m ignoring this, because all the Democrats tell me there’s no such thing as voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2790 "2012-11-05T13:29:03Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > Seems some guy in NC posted on his Facebook page that he has already voted four times for Obama, in different precincts, and plans to do so again. > > But I’m ignoring this, because all the Democrats tell me there’s no such thing as voter fraud. No, what we’ve said is that voter fraud is incredibly rare. Also, what makes you think this guy is telling the truth? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2791 "2012-11-05T13:46:08Z")
You can’t lie on Facebook, its against the law. But I was sure surprised to find out my fat, stupid and hairy cousin is banging supermodels. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2792 "2012-11-05T14:02:45Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > No, what we’ve said is that voter fraud is incredibly rare. And I agree. In the vast majority of elections, voter fraud is so rare that it cannot possibly effect the outcome. But when the outcome is Florida in 2000, with 537 votes deciding the Presidency, or Washington State in 2006, with 136 votes deciding the governor, THEN voter fraud could possibly effect the election. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2793 "2012-11-05T15:14:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I agree. In the vast majority of elections, voter fraud is so rare that it cannot possibly effect the outcome. > > But when the outcome is Florida in 2000, with 537 votes deciding the Presidency, or Washington State in 2006, with 136 votes deciding the governor, THEN voter fraud could possibly effect the election. So the solution is obviously to make it so vastly more legitimate voters are unable to vote. Bricker: _“500 votes could sway the election. Let’s make a rule so 5 million (mostly Democratic) voters have a much harder time voting. Derp!”_ Only an idiot would impose a solution that makes the problem worse. Well, an idiot, and a partisan that wants to steal elections. Also, Washington State has mail-in ballots only. So no voter ID would help there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2794 "2012-11-05T16:12:18Z")
But its possible! Can’t prove it isn’t possible! And so long as its possible, that means **Bricker** is…wait for it!..winning! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2795 "2012-11-05T16:19:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So the solution is obviously to make it so vastly more legitimate voters are unable to vote. > > Bricker: _“500 votes could sway the election. Let’s make a rule so 5 million (mostly Democratic) voters have a much harder time voting. Derp!”_ > > Only an idiot would impose a solution that makes the problem worse. Well, an idiot, and a partisan that wants to steal elections. Tell me why this trenchant analysis doesn’t apply to, say, bank accounts. There are a tiny number of impersonation attempts in front of bank tellers. Let’s solve that by implementing ID requirements that make it much harder for millions of legitimate bank account holders to withdraw their cash. And the nation’s reaction? “Yes, let’s!” Of course, you are supremely indifferent to the nation’s reaction. You want lots of people to vote, but you don’t want their votes to contradict anything you believe in. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2796 "2012-11-05T16:22:01Z")
What??? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2797 "2012-11-05T16:27:41Z")
Constitutional scholars should correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe there a right to a checking account written into the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2798 "2012-11-05T16:41:56Z")
Well. not as such, but the principle of “checks and balances” has been long established. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2799 "2012-11-05T17:11:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I agree. In the vast majority of elections, voter fraud is so rare that it cannot possibly effect the outcome. > > But when the outcome is Florida in 2000, with 537 votes deciding the Presidency, or Washington State in 2006, with 136 votes deciding the governor, THEN voter fraud could possibly effect the election. Vote fraud happening at the rate even you have agreed to (.00004%) would not have changed the outcomes in either of those elections. I’ve already done Florida to point this out, yet you keep bringing it up. Let’s do the other race you just brought up. Total ballots cast, according to Wikipedia: 2,810,054. Mutually\* accepted rate of voter fraud (.00004%). Number of fraudulent votes: 112 Difference in vote count: 136, which is more than 112. ETA: It’s worth highlighting again that the impact of voter suppression and disenfrachisement would be much greater and would clearly influence the results. I suppose the outcome would nevertheless be valid in Bricker’s opinion because those votes would be from people who are stupid and/or lazy, and don’t deserve to vote. You are one stupid fuck. I’m just grateful that you’ve finally decided to quit being Eddie Haskell and reveal your true nature to everyone here. (See also the damned union thread.) - Mutually agreed upon between Bricker and myself. I appreciate that I’m probably being overly generous. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/2800 "2012-11-05T17:15:18Z")
Hey, he hasn’t lost until he stops saying stuff! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=139) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=141)