# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/301 "2012-06-15T17:32:12Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > So? > > So? > > So? > > Sucks to want to participate such that you won’t make the sacrifice to get an ID that would probably benefit you in many other ways. > > What is the Democratic party doing to rectify the situation? In Alberta we used to have the equivalent of the DMV. Lines were around the block. Now we have private registries where you can access all sorts of government services including getting your ID. They are all over the place. Line ups are usually quite short. > > Okay, so do it. The other side has opened the door a crack. Kick it open. > > To those who continually oppose this because it won’t solve a particular issue, why does most of the rest of the Western world do it, do you think? The rest of the world has almost universal passport possession. Also, the rest of the western world doesn’t have a vast underclass like we do. So, as I said, if you want to get universal ID possession, I’m for that. But you should do that first before you demand that you need one to vote. To repeat, there is no significant voter fraud. And millions of legitimate voters will be kept from the polls if you ask for ID. Only a true idiot would think disenfranchising millions of voters to catch dozens of fraudulent voters is intelligent. Make sense? Poor people can’t take days off work or travel great distances easily. Making it harder to vote is a bad thing. Especially when the net result will not improve voting. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/302 "2012-06-15T17:35:01Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > So? > > So? > > So? > > Sucks to want to participate such that you won’t make the sacrifice to get an ID that would probably benefit you in many other ways. > > What is the Democratic party doing to rectify the situation? In Alberta we used to have the equivalent of the DMV. Lines were around the block. Now we have private registries where you can access all sorts of government services including getting your ID. They are all over the place. Line ups are usually quite short. > > Okay, so do it. The other side has opened the door a crack. Kick it open. > > To those who continually oppose this because it won’t solve a particular issue, why does most of the rest of the Western world do it, do you think? You make it sound like it’s the Dems fault for Republicans ostensibly hating poor people. Why do people need to sacrifice in order to vote? If we made a rule that you had to cut you’re arm (submit some other sacrifice if necessary) in order to vote, does that make it more worthwhile because there’s a sacrifice involved? If some have to sacrifice, shouldn’t all have to sacrifice? And how would you like the Dems to institute a national ID? I give it a -100% chance of passing congress and even if it did, they’d probably just cut the funding out from under it. I agree. Everyone should have an ID. But the reality of the situation is that everyone doesn’t. I’m willing to bet a sizable percentage in the states with the new laws don’t even know about the new requirements. And all for what? A system that’s expensive to set up and doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/303 "2012-06-15T17:41:28Z")
National ID? What’s next? National heath care? Right after that we’ll be adopting the euro. Then the black helicopters swoop in and its One World Government time! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/304 "2012-06-15T17:44:26Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > National ID? What’s next? National heath care? > > Right after that we’ll be adopting the euro. Then the black helicopters swoop in and its One World Government time! Wait, do we all get a helicopter? I’d submit to socialism for a helicopter. Are colors other than black available? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/305 "2012-06-15T17:46:03Z")
**Uzi** , its not that it doesn’t _solve_ a particular problem, its that it \*exploits \*that problem to partisan advantage. Our problems with these laws could be easily solved. An outreach program, for instance. A voter registration drive that simultaneously provides voter id. Boy, the Republicans would love that, wouldn’t they? Wow, a whole bunch of newly registered voters with rock-solid ID? Great, huh? So how come they don’t? See any such effort? No, what you see is an effort to make voter registration more difficult, to thwart the fiendish designs of the League of Women Voters. What you see is rescinding the Sunday voting laws that are very popular amongst black church-going voters. The Republicans are against going to church? Going to church while black? No, of course not. Going to vote after going to church? Well, now, that’s going too far, isn’t it? Can’t have that. Why? What’s the problem? I’d be willing to bet you didn’t hear anything about that until I told you about it. Well, now that you’ve heard about it, what do you think? Can you offer us some reasonable explanation? Do you approve? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/306 "2012-06-15T18:20:53Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The rest of the world has almost universal passport possession. And some countries require you to carry an **internal** passport, ready to show on demand while traveling within the country. And some countries require you to keep your address on file with the local police and notify them every time you move. Rightly or wrongly, Americans have always been rather averse to that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/307 "2012-06-15T18:30:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And some countries require you to carry an **internal** passport, ready to show on demand while traveling within the country. And some countries require you to keep your address on file with the local police and notify them every time you move. Rightly or wrongly, Americans have always been rather averse to that sort of thing. California considers it a misdemeanor if you don’t update your DL when you move. They also require you to get a CADL if you have been here for more than a few months (the cops love giving out that ticket in January to college students). That said, I do think and agree that it is funny how the right wing is now arguing for a mandatory photo ID, since they used to fight against it so much when discussed at the Federal level. They aren’t going for the Federal version yet though - just pushing the States Rights side of things. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/308 "2012-06-15T18:31:30Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > People can vote without proving who they are?! And people are arguing that this is a good thing? 😕 > > [Elections Canada](http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e#one) > Simple. You show up at the polling station having chosen one of the many ID options available to you, including the option, if you are so incompetent or incapable of utilizing any of the other options available, of dragging a friend along who has the proper ID to vouch for you. Easy Peasy. Gah, you Americans are imbeciles sometimes. > > “OMG! I have to vote! Wait, no ID.:mad: Well, maybe next time…” > \<4 years later\>, “OMG! I have to vote! Wait, no ID.:mad: Well, maybe next time…” > > Frankly, who wants people voting who can’t figure out how to get a proper ID? Excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/309 "2012-06-15T18:38:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Excellent post. Why? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/310 "2012-06-15T18:38:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So far as I am aware – and I am open to correction – no. There is no difference between SSNs issued to non-citizen permanent residents and citizens. And if a permanent resident becomes a naturalized citizen, there is no mechanism to inform the Social Security Administration. There could be. There could be a national database, cross-indexed by name and by SSN and by all other forms of personal ID number, listing all U.S. citizens, and all persons known to be or to have been in the U.S. at any time. It could include scanned copies of all documents generated by your dealings with government at any level – birth certificate, passport, driver’s license, voting registration, school records, vaccination records, arrest and conviction records, tax records, welfare or unemployment applications, professional or business licenses of any kind, any lawsuits to which you have ever been a party, and finally your death certificate. It could reflect your citizenship status and your vital status. Such a thing would present no great technical challenges with present technology. It would make identity theft and assumed names/identities impossible (or else all too easy, depending on the security and access protocols). It would make the job of the police a bit easier. And, as Scott McNealy said, “You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it.” Nevertheless, many Americans would find the whole idea deeply objectionable, for political-cultural reasons. Or even for religious reasons. (There are even some, I have personal knowledge, who go to midwives to deliver their babies, and then duck out fast without filling out a birth certificate – they want to remain completely invisible to The Beast.) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/311 "2012-06-15T18:39:22Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Excellent post. Interesting that you’re too stupid to understand the objections raised. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/312 "2012-06-15T18:42:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, I think their plan is to suppress just enough votes to make the difference in the close elections, which succeeded perfectly in Florida in 2000. And your pathetic lameass strawmanning only makes my point for me, liar. Nice try asshole but your squirming only makes you look like more of a douchebag. So let’s try this again: do you honestly believe that the Republican Party has evidence to suggest that there are “close elections” in which enough voters are a) do not currently have valid ID b) are not willing or able to eventually get valid ID c) actually planning to show up on election day and vote AND d) willing to vote Dem WHILE e) no one that would have voted R gets caught in the same net? What evidence do you have to show that of the voters potentially being suppressed are going to be 50%+1 Dems? This whole tempest in your bonnet is about “vote-suppression” when what you are trying to say is you think Republicans are going to make it harder for Dems to vote, but you can’t do that. At best you can show that there _might_ be _some_ people on the _margin_ that aren’t going to vote as a result except that even of that tiny fraction you have no way of knowing if they were going to vote R or D or even at all. You’ve got your head so far up your ass that you don’t even know what you’re pissed about other than “arg the Republicans are doing something and I have to pit them for it.” Slow news day? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/313 "2012-06-15T18:44:46Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If the solution, voter ID laws, causes more valid people to not be able to vote than would cast fraudulent votes it is a stupid solution. That’s a pretty damn big, and most likely imaginary, “if”. > [@](#): > > But you need to set that up before you can demand that someone take a day off work to get an ID. I have an idea. Lets invent a day or two a week where the populace can have off from work. But I know you’ll come back with, “But they work three jobs seven days a week and have no personal vehicle and the buses don’t go to the voting booths and they live way the fuck out in the middle of nowhere.” > [@Lobohan](#): > > Poor people can’t take days off work or travel great distances easily. Making it harder to vote is a bad thing. Especially when the net result will not improve voting. Close enough. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/314 "2012-06-15T18:44:47Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > California considers it a misdemeanor if you don’t update your DL when you move. They also require you to get a CADL if you have been here for more than a few months (the cops love giving out that ticket in January to college students). But that doesn’t apply to non-drivers, does it? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/315 "2012-06-15T18:45:14Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Frankly, who wants people voting who can’t figure out how to get a proper ID? Apparently that group now represents the entirety of those voting for the Dems, or so \*\* BrainGlutton\*\* would have us believe. [Help help I’m being suppressed!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlQVTGIOVJw&feature=fvst) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/316 "2012-06-15T18:45:20Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Nice try asshole but your squirming only makes you look like more of a douchebag. > > So let’s try this again: do you honestly believe that the Republican Party has evidence to suggest that there are “close elections” in which enough voters are > a) do not currently have valid ID > b) are not willing or able to eventually get valid ID > c) actually planning to show up on election day and vote > > AND > > d) willing to vote Dem > > WHILE > > e) no one that would have voted R gets caught in the same net? > > What evidence do you have to show that of the voters potentially being suppressed are going to be 50%+1 Dems? > > This whole tempest in your bonnet is about “vote-suppression” when what you are trying to say is you think Republicans are going to make it harder for Dems to vote, but you can’t do that. At best you can show that there _might_ be _some_ people on the _margin_ that aren’t going to vote as a result except that even of that tiny fraction you have no way of knowing if they were going to vote R or D or even at all. > > You’ve got your head so far up your ass that you don’t even know what you’re pissed about other than “arg the Republicans are doing something and I have to pit them for it.” Slow news day? It doesn’t have to catch no Republicans. It has to catch less Republicans than Democrats. I thought you were just a libertarian twat, I didn’t know you were actually stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/317 "2012-06-15T18:46:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > There could be. There could be a national database, cross-indexed by name and by SSN and by all other forms of personal ID number, listing all U.S. citizens, and all persons known to be or to have been in the U.S. at any time. It could include scanned copies of all documents generated by your dealings with government at any level – birth certificate, passport, driver’s license, voting registration, school records, vaccination records, arrest and conviction records, tax records, welfare or unemployment applications, professional or business licenses of any kind, any lawsuits to which you have ever been a party, and finally your death certificate. It could reflect your citizenship status and your vital status. Such a thing would present no great technical challenges with present technology. It would make identity theft and assumed names/identities impossible (or else all too easy, depending on the security and access protocols). It would make the job of the police a bit easier. And, as Scott McNealy said, “You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it.” Nevertheless, many Americans would find the whole idea deeply objectionable, for political-cultural reasons. Or even for religious reasons. (There are even some, I have personal knowledge, who go to midwives to deliver their babies, and then duck out fast without filling out a birth certificate – they want to remain completely invisible to The Beast.) Even without all that, you’re birth place is coded into your SS number. We would just have to keep a DB of nationalized citizens’ SS#s ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/318 "2012-06-15T18:52:20Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Fingerprint scanners could work. Gah! What about all the people without fingers?!?!?! They’ll be suppressed!!!111one And after all the time I spent solidifying by base of fingerless individuals. _[Grandpa Simpson]mmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnssssssss_ ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/319 "2012-06-15T18:53:46Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Nice try asshole but your squirming only makes you look like more of a douchebag. > > So let’s try this again: do you honestly believe that the Republican Party has evidence to suggest that there are “close elections” in which enough voters are > a) do not currently have valid ID > b) are not willing or able to eventually get valid ID > c) actually planning to show up on election day and vote > > AND > > d) willing to vote Dem > > WHILE > > e) no one that would have voted R gets caught in the same net? > > What evidence do you have to show that of the voters potentially being suppressed are going to be 50%+1 Dems? > > This whole tempest in your bonnet is about “vote-suppression” when what you are trying to say is you think Republicans are going to make it harder for Dems to vote, but you can’t do that. At best you can show that there _might_ be _some_ people on the _margin_ that aren’t going to vote as a result except that even of that tiny fraction you have no way of knowing if they were going to vote R or D or even at all. > > You’ve got your head so far up your ass that you don’t even know what you’re pissed about other than “arg the Republicans are doing something and I have to pit them for it.” Slow news day? [http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote](http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote) > [@](#): > > That leaves another 3.2 million Americans who don’t possess a government-issued picture ID, according to a recent study co-authored by Norden. > [@](#): > > By all estimates, those least likely to have a government-issued photo ID fall into one of four categories: the elderly, minorities, the poor and young adults aged 18 to 24. The Brennan Center estimates that 18 percent of all seniors and 25 percent of African-Americans don’t have picture IDs. Granted, elderly favor Republicans. However, the other 3 demographics favor Democrats. Really, it isn’t rocket science. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/320 "2012-06-15T18:54:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But that doesn’t apply to non-drivers, does it? Not sure. The California DMV also issues non-driver ID cards (and they have a reduced fee version as well). On their website they state you must notify the DMV of an address change within 10 days actually. It appears with a cursory glance that if you get an official California ID, you must also tell them when you move. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=17)