# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 167
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3321 "2013-06-26T03:06:59Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Funny, if memory serves there hasn’t been any lessening of the cries of discrimination or racism since the VRA was enacted, so clearly it wasn’t working - right? Or am I missing something vital in the “debate”? Nice to see that the other side of the debate has some intellectual giants to make the case. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3322 "2013-06-26T07:00:24Z")
Scalia will throw a bone to “principle” when the Court is voting 7-2 or such, but [as I demonstrated earlier](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13057413&postcount=22) the Court is rather predictable on 5-4 splits. Civil rights? Corporate power? Police power? Anything that helps the GOP? Across a very broad range of issues, the voting is so consistent one wonders why they don’t just let Arthur Kennedy make all the decisions, and let the other eight stay on vacation. The disgusting Supreme Court packed with Bush-Reagan hacks will be highlighted when _The Decline of America’s Democracy_ is written. Saddest of all would be to read Chief Roberts’ secret diary: > [@](#): > > Funniest of all was when they accused me of “integrity” for upholding Obamacare. 😃 Didn’t they understand that that was win-win for our team, both financially and politically? Antonin understood of course – you should have seen the hilarious decision he’d prepared if he’d needed to be the fifth vote. I almost joined the other hacks just for the fun of seeing Antonin’s “reasoning” in print! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3323 "2013-07-22T02:23:43Z")
And, of course, now [Florida is going to resume its voter-roll purge](http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/legislature/us-supreme-court-voting-decision-likely-to-stop-legal-challenge-to-florida/2131208). ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3324 "2013-07-22T04:47:05Z")
Retired Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens let’s it be know that he, too, has an [opinion](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/aug/15/the-court-right-to-vote-dissent/) concerning the ruling of _Shelby County v. Holder_. Hat-tip to [Charlie Pierce](http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Justice_Stevens_In_Dissent) who provides a more nuanced view…or, is it the other way around? Another Republican for justice and liberty for all: [Rob Gleason](http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/PA-GOP-chair-says-voter-ID-helped-cut-Obama-margin.html) > [@](#): > > In an interview broadcast on PCN-TV, Gleason was asked whether he thought the attention drawn to Voter ID affected last year’s elections. > > He replied.“Yeah, I think a little bit. We probably had a better election. Think about this, we cut Obama by 5%, which was big. A lot of people lost sight of that. He won, he beat McCain by 10%, he only beat Romney by 5%. I think that probably Voter ID had helped a bit in that.” And then there’s this little ditty: > [@](#): > > GOP party spokeswoman Valerie Caras in an email today said there remains a legitimate concern about voter fraud and blamed the Democrats for creating “hysteria” that may have kept their voters at home. Whose voters? The GOP? That infers their members are spineless in the face of adversity. Or did she mean the Democrats? Then that implies the ones who are engaging in voter fraud are members of the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3325 "2013-07-22T15:19:07Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > GOP party spokeswoman Valerie Caras in an email today said there remains a legitimate concern about voter fraud and blamed the Democrats for creating “hysteria” that may have kept their voters at home. 😕 “Hysteria” is generally a GOTV kind of thing. The only form of “hysteria” that could ever keep voters at home is the kind that imagines that trying to vote will get you in trouble. (There was a time when that **did** keep . . . certain people from voting, but it was no hysterical or unrealistic fear at the time.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3326 "2013-07-22T15:29:56Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > Another Republican for justice and liberty for all: [Rob Gleason](http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/harrisburg_politics/PA-GOP-chair-says-voter-ID-helped-cut-Obama-margin.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > In an interview broadcast on PCN-TV, Gleason was asked whether he thought the attention drawn to Voter ID affected last year’s elections. > > > > He replied.“Yeah, I think a little bit. We probably had a better election. Think about this, we cut Obama by 5%, which was big. A lot of people lost sight of that. He won, he beat McCain by 10%, he only beat Romney by 5%. I think that probably Voter ID had helped a bit in that.” Funny, I **don’t** hear him saying that that was because the voter ID law kept ineligibles from voting. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3327 "2013-07-22T18:26:01Z")
I suspect they sometimes let their guard down because they don’t really think what they are doing is wrong. They know for a fact that most of America is solidly with them, so if the Dems win anything, they _must_ be cheating. How could Obama have won if all the really unskewed and truthy polls clearly showed Romney would win? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3328 "2013-07-22T18:32:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Funny, I **don’t** hear him saying that that was because the voter ID law kept ineligibles from voting. Nor do you hear him saying that the law kept eligible voters from voting. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3329 "2013-07-22T18:42:34Z")
True! He didn’t specify any mechanism by way of which this wondrous result was realized. Could have been magic, i suppose. Or shame, perhaps? “Look, here is this totally legal and constitutional law making it harder for me to vote! I must be an unworthy person, undeserving of any such choice. Gosh, if I vote, its a blight on democracy! I will abstain until they tell me I have done enough penance.” That’s silly of course. No doubt you have a more plausible scenario right at your fingertips, but didn’t quite have enough time to offer it. Take your time, we’ll be here. Ready when you are. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3330 "2013-07-22T18:45:29Z")
Wait, I thought that **Bricker** was concerned mostly with the legality of things in this case (as he often is) and was not asserting the purity of Republican motives in pushing these laws? IOW, I thought he was of the opinion that “they may be putting these laws in place to suppress Democratic votes, but that doesn’t matter, because they have the legal right to do it”? Or am I incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3331 "2013-07-22T19:16:18Z")
I thought **Bricker** ’s rationale was that the mere fear of fraudulent voting was sufficient to justify voter ID laws. It’s not intended to change how many people are able to vote, or for whom, but eliminating the appearance of fraud will instill greater confidence in the results. Which is somewhat at odds with Gleason’s claim that it did change the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3332 "2013-07-22T19:28:30Z")
Pretty slick, gotta hand it to him. The actual threat doesn’t even need to exist, merely the fearful worry that it might. Not even that it _currently_ exists, but might at some point in the future. And, really, shouldn’t the Democrats just man up and take a bullet for the sake of the country? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3333 "2013-07-22T19:38:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Funny, I **don’t** hear him saying that that was because the voter ID law kept ineligibles from voting. > [@Bricker](#): > > Nor do you hear him saying that the law kept eligible voters from voting. Has the question been studied? I can’t seem to find anything by googling right now, but there ought to be stats available regarding who was turned away from the polls in Pennsyvania in November 2012, who got a provisional ballot, and whose provisional ballots were counted or discarded. (Of course, that would not tell the whole story; some others, eligible or not, might have been “turned away” in the sense that they were too discouraged to show up, or e-day came and they could not find their ID and saw no point in going to the polls without it.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3334 "2013-07-22T19:39:26Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I thought **Bricker** ’s rationale was that the mere fear of fraudulent voting was sufficient to justify voter ID laws. It’s not intended to change how many people are able to vote, or for whom, but eliminating the appearance of fraud will instill greater confidence in the results. > > Which is somewhat at odds with Gleason’s claim that it did change the numbers. Well, that’s because Gleason and I are different people. I have no idea why he believes that the voter ID laws decreased fraudulent voting to that degree. And I have no idea why I should be responsible for his opinion, correct or in error. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3335 "2013-07-22T19:46:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Has the question been studied? I can’t seem to find anything by googling right now, but there ought to be stats available regarding who was turned away from the polls in Pennsyvania in November 2012, who got a provisional ballot, and whose provisional ballots were counted or discarded. (Of course, that would not tell the whole story; some others, eligible or not, might have been “turned away” in the sense that they were too discouraged to show up, or e-day came and they could not find their ID and saw no point in going to the polls without it.) Of course, [it’s not even **that** simple](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/17/pennsylvania-gop-chairman-voter-id-law-helped-cut-obama-during-2012-election/): > [@](#): > > The law was not enforced during the 2012 elections due to an ongoing legal battle. Officials, however, were still allowed to asked for identification, a situation that resulted in confusion. So **that’s** what cut Obama’s vote-margin from 10% to 5%? Just the “confusion”? It’s not exactly news that confusion is the GOP’s best friend, but, still . . . ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3336 "2013-07-22T19:47:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > … I have no idea why he believes that the voter ID laws decreased fraudulent voting to that degree… Missed that part. Where did he say anything about “fraudulent voting”? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3337 "2013-07-22T19:50:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Missed that part. Where did he say anything about “fraudulent voting”? What else could it be? (In his mind, that is). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3338 "2013-07-22T19:51:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Of course, [it’s not even **that** simple](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/17/pennsylvania-gop-chairman-voter-id-law-helped-cut-obama-during-2012-election/): > > So **that’s** what cut Obama’s vote-margin from 10% to 5%? Just the “confusion”? > > It’s not exactly news that confusion is the GOP’s best friend, but, still . . . I think it’s obvious what cut Obama’s vote totals in half: the usual malaise that afflicts voting for second-term presidents. Just my opinion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3339 "2013-07-22T20:02:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What else could it be? (In his mind, that is). In his mind there’s a **lot** else it could be and almost certainly is. His statements are a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3340 "2013-07-22T20:04:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think it’s obvious what cut Obama’s vote totals in half: the usual malaise that afflicts voting for second-term presidents. Just my opinion, of course. Agreed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=166) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=168)