# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/321 "2012-06-15T18:56:13Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Why? Because the letters were arranged in such a way to form words that, in the particular order they were put in, make very good points. And they do so to such a agree to merit an “excellent”. 😉 The bottom line is that everything is a bit harder if your poor. That’s why it sucks so much to be poor. But being poor doesn’t absolve you of doing some basic things to participate in society. You want to vote, great. You either vote early by mail or get your ass to the polling place. Just because you’re poor doesn’t mean you don’t have to fill things out correctly. It doesn’t mean you don’t have to go to a polling place. Everyone has to do it. Correction: everyone who values voting enough to get their asses to the polling place. I think we should have threat confidence in the sanctity of the vote. And no valid vote should be rendered a waste of time because someone who shouldn’t have voted did. I think we need to have some system in place to ensure there is not hi-jinx on election day, whether it be picture IDs, thumbprints, whatever. I also want to make it reasonably easy for those who are infirm or otherwise find it onerous to get an ID to get one. But I really have no desire to track down people who really have no or little interest in voting. I don’t want to go knocking on Norman Bates’s door, track down some backwoods-living Hatfield , wake up some hungover frat boy, or bother some elderly person who doesn’t want to be bothered, and stick their face in a ballot. Voting is a privilege. being able to vote is a right. But if you want to participate, you have to participate within the system. And that is going to mean that you have to do things like fill out forms, get your ass down to the voting booth, and go to the small trouble of confirming you are able to vote before you actually cast a vote. Hope one of those paragraphs answer your question. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/322 "2012-06-15T18:57:48Z")
Emac, are you suggesting that Republicans DON’T think it would be to their advantage? Why the fuck would they be in favor of a costly Big Government federal national ID program otherwise? Sure, they typically aren’t the most principled bunch, I’ll grant you that. However, the most parsimonious explanation for Republican behavior on this topic is quite obvious ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/323 "2012-06-15T18:58:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It doesn’t have to catch no Republicans. It has to catch less Republicans than Democrats. > > I thought you were just a libertarian twat, I didn’t know you were actually stupid. So do you believe that the Republican Party has data showing this plan will be a net gain for them? Do you honestly believe that there is statistical proof showing that there are fewer people planning to vote Republic but can’t be arsed t get ID than there are people planning to vote Dem but can’t be arsed to get ID? While at the same time stopping more people who are ineligible from voting Dem than people who are ineligible from voting Republican? I have no doubt that both you and your peanut gallery are dumb enough to believe that. These Republicans sure are a crafty bunch, if only there was a way to foil this diabolical plot! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/324 "2012-06-15T18:59:37Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > But many/most of the laws (if not all) being passed STILL don’t require photo ID. So I don’t see how that’s relevant to the discussion. Well, in all the discussions I have had about voter ID laws, I have been discussing (and referring to) photo ID laws. I have quoted with approval the scheme upheld in Indiana by the Supreme Court in _Crawford v. Marion County_. If your objection is to non-photo ID laws, I am inclined to agree with you. I don’t see much point to requiring a non-photo ID. I am speaking with approval (generally) about the laws of Hawaii, Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, Tennessee, Kansas, Idaho, South Dakota, Michigan, Indiana, and Pennsylvania. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/325 "2012-06-15T19:03:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Interesting that you’re too stupid to understand the objections raised. Oh no, Chuckle Head called me stupid. ☹ Based on your use of the word here and elsewhere in the thread, never mind the countless times you spout it across these boards, it seems you have as poor a grasp of the word’s meaning as you do of “liar”. But let me help you. “Stupid” is what you should have felt when you got bitch-slapped in this very thread yesterday to the point you first tried to back-pedal and then tried to disappear. Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/326 "2012-06-15T19:09:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I find it interesting that you continually confound prosecution with identification of voter fraud. Are you acknowledging that it would not at all be impossible to identify fraudulent voting now? Impossible? No. Virtually impossible? Yes. > [@](#): > > In your preferred voter ID scenario, what’s to stop the person from saying it wasn’t them wen confronted. Same thing that allows us to prosecute bad check writers: the person who accepted the check can testify that the utterer of the check presented ID. [Here’s what happens](http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/gov-rick-scott-florida-is-absolutely-not-targeting-minorities-in/1233277) under the current system: > [@](#): > > The cases of Neville M. Walters and Ramon Cue add a new layer of political complexity to Florida’s contentious noncitizen voter purge, a focal point in the national debate over fraud and fairness in this year’s presidential election. > . > . > . > The cases of Cue and Walters could strengthen his administration’s hand because they suggest there’s a good chance more ineligible voters are on the rolls and could cast ballots unlawfully if they’re not stopped. > > They were among 13 registered voters who acknowledged they weren’t U.S. citizens, Miami-Dade’s election supervisor says. Since elections records show each voted — Cue once in 1996 and Walters seven times since 2000 — the office forwarded the men’s names to the Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office. The two could face third-degree felony charges. > . > . > . > Cue, 53 and from Miami, told the Herald he’s a schizophrenic, doesn’t remember voting and said three others have his same name and birth date. “I’ve never voted a day in my life,” Cue said. “I’ve lived in this house for 14 years and I have never filled out any paperwork regarding voting.” How do we convict him? Is he even guilty? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/327 "2012-06-15T19:11:57Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > That leaves another 3.2 million Americans who **don’t** possess a government-issued picture ID, according to a recent study co-authored by Norden. Rocket science? You’re not this stupid are you? Have you joined **Lobohan’s** peanut gallery have you? I don’t give a fuck who DOESN’T have ID, it’s about how CAN’T have ID. Of those 3.2million Americans: a) how many will actually show up to vote b) not be arsed to get ID, ever! AND c) vote Dem It’s a fucking picture ID, not rocket science. There isn’t even a fucking multiple choice test or a reading requirement. For the love of all that is holy forget this asinine topic and get those people proper fucking ID, it’s the 21st century for fucks sake. At some point between now and Nov I’m pretty sure most of those 3.2million people will need ID for one reason or another. Voting is the least of their worries. > [@Sinaptics](#): > > By all estimates, those least likely to have a government-issued photo ID fall into one of four categories: the elderly, minorities, the poor and young adults aged 18 to 24. Doesn’t have it or just can’t remember where they left it? How the hell does a senior get to be a senior without ID? I can’t buy cold medication without it. > [@Sinaptics](#): > > Granted, elderly favor Republicans. However, the other 3 demographics favor Democrats. Really, it isn’t rocket science. Favour? By what maaaaaaaaaaaaargin? 2 to 1? 3 to 1? Is it always the case in every electoral district? The poor that aren’t able to get ID in Washington State are just as likely to vote Dem as the poor that aren’t able to get ID in Texas? Or are you suggesting that the poor without ID in Oregon are less likely to go get ID than the poor in Texas? This is the dumbest fucking issue you Yanks have yet to come up with, you’d think the US had already solved the rest of their problems. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/328 "2012-06-15T19:15:57Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > That’s a pretty damn big, and most likely imaginary, “if”. What? We have the numbers. Most of the people without ID are minorities, poor or young. They tend (overall, not with 100% accuracy) to vote Dem. And we know that vote fraud doesn’t happen with any regularity. Literally dozens of fraudulent votes. Dozens, not millions. > [@](#): > > I have an idea. Lets invent a day or two a week where the populace can have off from work. I’m all for a federal holiday to vote. I’d also like same day registration if we can work that in to our dream. > [@](#): > > But I know you’ll come back with, “But they work three jobs seven days a week and have no personal vehicle and the buses don’t go to the voting booths and they live way the fuck out in the middle of nowhere.” Getting to the voting booth is usually local and easy enough. Getting and ID can be onerous. > [@](#): > > Close enough. As I say, stand up for universal American ID. I’m for that. But the thing is, it’s the boneheads on the right that would be strongest to fight against it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/329 "2012-06-15T19:17:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh no, Chuckle Head called me stupid. ☹ > > Based on your use of the word here and elsewhere in the thread, never mind the countless times you spout it across these boards, it seems you have as poor a grasp of the word’s meaning as you do of “liar”. But let me help you. “Stupid” is what you should have felt when you got bitch-slapped in this very thread yesterday to the point you first tried to back-pedal and then tried to disappear. > > Hope that helps. I didn’t backpedal. I supported my contention with cites. You feel the need to be dishonest about what I wrote, because you simply have no compunction about debating with integrity. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/330 "2012-06-15T19:25:38Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Emac, are you suggesting that Republicans DON’T think it would be to their advantage? Do you honestly believe that the Republican Party powers that be have evidence to show this will be a net gain for them? Do you believe that they have stats showing there are “close elections” where more Dems aren’t able to get an ID than Repubs that can’t get ID? And do you honestly believe that they have stats showing of all the close elections throughout the US that enough of them are going to workout in favour of the Republican Party? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/331 "2012-06-15T19:28:09Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I didn’t backpedal. I supported my contention with cites. You feel the need to be dishonest about what I wrote, because you simply have no compunction about debating with integrity. But your cites didn’t show evidence of what you said. Not even close. And even leaving that teensy-weensy Everest-sized problem aside, you backpedalled from an accusation of lying to one of “being dishonest”, where being “dishonest” translated into **Bricker** not providing your side of the argument for you. :rolleyes: You know, I’m seeing a pattern with these words you like to use so cavalierly, like “liar” and “stupid”; they never seem to apply to the object of your insufferability. BUt they do apply to someone. Tell, me do you have your keyboard set up in front of a monitor or a mirror? Oh, and given your penchant for mindless ad hominem attacks and the lesson you should have benefitted form yesterday, you claim have no compunction to debate with integrity? Ha. Gaze into that mirror again. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/332 "2012-06-15T19:30:06Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Do you honestly believe that the Republican Party powers that be have evidence to show this will be a net gain for them? > > Do you believe that they have stats showing there are “close elections” where more Dems aren’t able to get an ID than Repubs that can’t get ID? > > And do you honestly believe that they have stats showing of all the close elections throughout the US that enough of them are going to workout in favour of the Republican Party? Absolutely. The alternative is that believe it’s in the best interest of the country, even if it could favor Democrats. If you think Republicans work that way, you’re fucking nuts. See: the last 12 years. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/333 "2012-06-15T19:30:26Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Do you honestly believe that the Republican Party powers that be have evidence to show this will be a net gain for them? > > Do you believe that they have stats showing there are “close elections” where more Dems aren’t able to get an ID than Repubs that can’t get ID? > > And do you honestly believe that they have stats showing of all the close elections throughout the US that enough of them are going to workout in favour of the Republican Party? Yes. No. No. I don’t think they have stats that will show it will tip elections because nobody can see the future. Why do find it inconceivable that they don’t have stats that show more Dems don’t have ID then Repubs? A simple poll would answer that. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/334 "2012-06-15T19:30:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > What? We have the numbers. Most of the people without ID are minorities, poor or young. They tend (overall, not with 100% accuracy) to vote Dem. Fuck, how do you still not get this? It’s not about people without ID, it’s about people that can’t ever manage to get ID before the next election. How many of those “most” are so incompetent as to not be able to go get ID before the next election, or the one after that, or the one after that? God damn, the last time I was at the DMV it was nothing but seniors, minorities, and the poor. In order for this retarded little fantasy of yours to play out, all those those “millions” you speak of would have to throw up their hands in unison and refuse to go get ID. If only there was some way to thwart this diabolical plan. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/335 "2012-06-15T19:31:13Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But your cites didn’t show evidence of what you said. Not even close. And even leaving that teensy-weensy Everest-sized problem aside, you backpedalled from an accusation of lying to one of “being dishonest”, where being “dishonest” translated into **Bricker** not providing your side of the argument for you. :rolleyes: > > You know, I’m seeing a pattern with these words you like to use so cavalierly, like “liar” and “stupid”; they never seem to apply to the object of your insufferability. BUt they do apply to someone. Tell, me do you have your keyboard set up in front of a monitor or a mirror? Oh, you clever thing! I’m insufferable to you because I deal with facts and reality and you’re just a servile drone fed on right-wing honey. In any case, I made my case in that thread, so please, feel free to rage about it more. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/336 "2012-06-15T19:35:43Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Fuck, how do you still not get this? It’s not about people without ID, it’s about people that can’t ever manage to get ID before the next election. > > How many of those “most” are so incompetent as to not be able to go get ID before the next election, or the one after that, or the one after that? > > God damn, the last time I was at the DMV it was nothing but seniors, minorities, and the poor. > > In order for this retarded little fantasy of yours to play out, all those those “millions” you speak of would have to throw up their hands in unison and refuse to go get ID. > > If only there was some way to thwart this diabolical plan. People who don’t have IDs, and this includes people who have moved, or don’t have cars any more, obviously don’t need them. If you change the rules to require them to vote, you start the clock at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/337 "2012-06-15T19:44:56Z")
Duplicate post - move along. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/338 "2012-06-15T19:51:57Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Oh, you clever thing! > > I’m insufferable to you because I deal with facts and reality and you’re just a servile drone fed on right-wing honey. > > In any case, I made my case in that thread, so please, feel free to rage about it more. Please. More than anyone else on these boards you hurl out accusations of Liar!, Stupid!, Moron! etc. You do that more than anyone. And to more people. You’ve done it several times to several posters in just the last few pages of this very thread. It’s 98% of your game. And you might want to have someone check your reading skills. I never said _you_ were insufferable to _me_, as you imply. I think you’re just a cheap shot artist who like to run his mouth because that’s all you got. When I have a few minutes I enjoy sticking your face in your own stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/339 "2012-06-15T20:03:32Z")
I read this on another forum, and it seemed quite informative. > [@](#): > > By the way, that ID[A valid Social Security Number] is no longer valid even though you can only get it by having a birth certificate, and an actual state photo ID is reliant on us trusting the SSN ID as reliable[3], meaning you have to take an extra potentially 100 dollar step again to find evidence we just dismissed as horseshit in a system that’s already prone to the logical fallacy of garbage in, garbage out, meaning that you’re basically paying a black person surcharge of 100 dollars to enter this democracy". > > [3] Here’s the reason why picture voter ID systems are in particularly stupid and just an extra hassle and charge on the poor, and solve nothing. It’s a garbage in, garbage out situation. To register you already have to provide 2 proofs of residency and a social security number. All you need to get an ID is a social security number, 2 proofs of residency (all of which are comically easy to manipulate), and a birth certificate, which you can get with a social security card. This means that the whole system is built upon trust of the social security number. If that trust is too meaningless that it can’t be used to ID voters once, then it sure as fuck isn’t getting more trustworthy the 15th fucking time I’m asked for it. Garbage goes in the system, garbage will come out. All you’re doing is basically adding hurdles and money pits in the hopes that somebody will be like “Forget this shit, I don’t really even care”. Really the whole voter ID system is like being like “OK, I don’t believe you’re Gorfas and I can’t take your word for it. Tell that man over there you’re Gorfas, he’ll take your word for it, then he can tell me that you told him who you are, then I’ll take your word for it”. And being like “SECURITY!” when the meaningless chain of maybe lies maybe not lies is complete. And the funny damn thing is that the system can’t really become more secure because eventually somebody along the line has to take your word for it, or else the system becomes this clusterfuck of catch-22’s where nothing can be fixed in a situation of say, a fire. If your house burned down and you lost some of your documents then somebody somewhere has to take your word you’re not an android or ghost, because you have fuck no realistic way short of a magic Delorian to take me back to witness your birth of proving you’re not a figment of my imagination. The facts involved are really quite simple. Something like 10% of all citizens 18 and above don’t have valid ID for these voter ID laws. Voter fraud cases have been demonstrated to be all but negligible – even people who went into the issue with the clear intent of finding voter fraud, whether or not it’s actually happening, couldn’t find any _actual_ cases. The actual rates are something like 0.0004%. Now, let’s assume that of that 10%, only one in a hundred people don’t have ID because getting ID implies a very real difficulty for them. I’d consider this rate _extremely_ generous, to be honest, because if you don’t have ID, there’s probably a good reason for it, but let’s just say 1% of that 10% has no ID because getting one would be very difficult. So let’s imagine that someone instituted a voter ID law. It means that you need a photo ID, say, a driver’s license, in order to vote. By instituting this law on a nationwide scale, we have prevented about 1200 cases of voter fraud. At the same time, you’ve prevented approximately **300,000** legitimate voters from voting. So rather than making democracy more representative of the general populace, we’ve made it drastically _less_ representative! Yes, you can call the figures into question. But I have to seriously question the reasoning, when almost every case of alleged voter fraud investigated has turned out to be either clerical error or a misunderstanding, rather than actual fraud, behind asserting that the value is off by about _25000%!_ But hey, if you think that that’s a reasonable number, I’ve got a great idea. How about you do your own research, and _you_ find where all the voter fraud is going on? Imagine that you are a citizen living in a major industrial area in New York. Life is expensive and you have neither savings nor an education - your parents were dirt-poor, you local school was shit, and you couldn’t afford to go to college. Due to the lack of options, you have to work two to three jobs to support you and your family. This takes up almost all of your time, and you are still barely able to put food on the table. You don’t have a driver’s license (you take the bus everywhere). Now imagine that the governor says “you must present either a passport or a driver’s license in order to vote”. Well, you have to go through the steps of getting one. For starters, this involves taking a valid biometric photo at a store that does that. You have to find the store, travel to it, pay to have the photos made and printed out, and get home. This all costs money and time - money that you need to help pay for your family, and time that you just really don’t have (you work two crappy jobs, remember?). Then, once you have those photos, you have to go to the DMV, or a similar government agency, and apply for the ID. You have to fill out forms, usually provide proof of citizenship (which is ANOTHER costly and time-consuming step), and wait for it to be processed, then go back again. Once more, this costs you time and money (for the transportation) that you just don’t have. And all this to have the right to vote in a democratic country. Now imagine that this law has been implemented because of fears of “voter fraud”. As an upstanding citizen, you feel like it is your moral obligation to vote, but the fact is, you simply cannot fulfill all of these steps in a meaningful way. Maybe you’re poor and have no time to visit the right offices during work hours. Maybe you’re elderly and going anywhere presents a real struggle for you. Maybe you’re a college student who couldn’t afford a car just yet and who really needs to work when he’s not either in a lecture or studying. Wouldn’t you feel just a little bit pissed off if studies consistently, time and time again, showed that voter fraud is somewhere between “negligible” and “nonexistent” in your home state and country? This issue is about as clear-cut as it gets. If your goal is “make democracy as representative as possible”, then voter ID laws _fail_. They fail miserably. If your goal is “prevent voter fraud” as an end unto itself, and you would put that ahead of “make democracy as representative as possible”, **THE ENTIRE REASON VOTER FRAUD MATTERS AT ALL** , then your priorities are _fucked_. I’d be surprised about this, and how it’s become a party-line issue, but then I remembered the fact that such “reforms” overwhelmingly hurt democratic, minority, and lower-class voters. Huh. That’s… convenient. The fact that they are more often than not accompanied by voter roll purges executed with flawed methodology, closing DMVs in more “blue” areas, shortening voting periods, and other tactics which _don’t seem to hold any purpose whatsoever_ is just the icing on the shit sundae. In theory, I have no problem with voter ID laws… assuming that it can reasonably be guaranteed that every citizen who wants ID can get ID with little to no effort. Europe does this pretty well, all things considered – you _have_ to have a photo ID, and it’s basically just given to you by the local government when you turn 18 (or even before!). In practice, however, they just don’t do what they’re supposed to do, and a little further investigation reveals them to be blatantly obvious republican ploys to suppress primarily democratic voting blocks. There is _no reason_ to support these reforms, and they are blatant attacks on the democratic process. If you disagree, then you are wrong. It’s really that simple. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/340 "2012-06-15T20:06:01Z")
So, I’ve asked politely a couple of times why this Sunday voting thing was necessary and useful. So far, none of you guys who are screaming your heads off have offered an answer. I’m inclined to believe its because you don’t have one. Or the restrictions on voter registration programs, like the diabolical League of Women Voters. On those points, you got nothin’, and don’t even have the balls to admit you don’t. You just stick to your one talking point, and scream louder. This is the best you can do? Seriously? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=18)