# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 196
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3901 "2013-11-08T20:27:38Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Actually based on previous experience, he would come in, find post in which there was a technical mistake and hijack the thread so that it became not about the molester and the catholic church but whether or not it was ok to call someone a criminal even if they had not as of yet been convicted by a jury. But that’s just the way he rolls Possibly. But, and I don’t want to seem like I’m harping on this, if he did NOT do that in that one particular thread, his failure to do so could not logically be used as evidence that he did or did not sufficiently condemn the Catholic church’s actions in that particular case. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3902 "2013-11-08T20:34:07Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Actually based on previous experience, he would come in, find post in which there was a technical mistake and hijack the thread so that it became not about the molester and the catholic church but whether or not it was ok to call someone a criminal even if they had not as of yet been convicted by a jury. > > … If that means arguing vociferously that it is worse to have a handful of illegal votes than 10,000 disenfranchised voters then so be it. Whether the laws actually good or bad for democracy is irrelevant. What is important is the skill with which he can defend his side. Being on the opposite side of the evidence and rationality just makes it more challenging, but probably also more fun. This is why I find **Bricker** to be so irritating and useless. But let’s be thankful he spends his efforts at SDMB instead of sabotaging the real world like his hero Karl Rove does. Yet his deflections remind one of Rove: recall that Rove (or someone he mentored) probably masterminded the forgeries that made Bush’s malingering story about Dan Rather instead of GWB. What’s sad is that **Bricker** ’s posts show evidence that, unlike that of SDMB’s other right-wing blowhards, his intelligence isn’t completely gone. Once upon a time he might have been a sincere conservative intellectual. Now he seems like a bitter old partisan jumping from one idiocy to the next. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3903 "2013-11-08T20:41:52Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > You’re missing my point entirely. I’m not saying that everyone just gets a free pass on the content of what they post on the SDMB because “it’s just for fun”. If someone is an assholish troll then they’re an assholish troll even if they think being an assholish troll is fun. > > What I am saying is that ABSENCE OF POSTING is not evidence of anything, because SDMB posters aren’t obligated to express opinions on things. > Suppose that another Catholic-priest-underage-boy-sex-scandal came to light tomorrow, one which was completely unambiguously a coverup job by the Catholic church, but without any particularly new or different features. If there were a thread about it, would you post in it? As someone who is generally a fan of the Catholic church, would you want to go into a thread in which you’re going to have to be doing nothing but either apologizing for people doing awful things, or else offering extremely narrowly phrased qualifications? Well, you might. But you also might not, you just might not be in the mood, you might not have the energy. And of course you might just be out of town or away from your computer or called away by real life for whatever reason. And if you did not post in that thread, THAT WOULD NOT PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE ABOUT YOUR OPINION OF THAT SCANDAL. It would not give some anti-Bricker poster in a later thread evidence that you tacitly approve of the Church’s actions. Sure, OK. But if that did happen, and I came in to the thread to point out I never saw the thread, and was unaware of the issue, I agree. But it also seems to me the thread’s proponents could say, “Well, you’re here now. What do you have to say about the issue?” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3904 "2013-11-08T20:47:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Kinda nifty, in a perverted way, he can say yes, that’s right, there is no evidence, but if the laws were there, then these crimes would be prevented. And then there would _still_ be no evidence, but now it would be because these crimes have been prevented! And when \*that \*blows up in his face, there’s the old standby, one he’s used in this very thread, that we know we’d do the same thing if we had the opportunity (or the intelligence to think of it ourselves), so aren’t we ashamed of ourselves for being such imaginary hypocrites. It gets more than sad after awhile. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3905 "2013-11-08T21:34:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure, OK. > > But if that did happen, and I came in to the thread to point out I never saw the thread, and was unaware of the issue, I agree. But it also seems to me the thread’s proponents could say, “Well, you’re here now. What do you have to say about the issue?” If you came into what thread? That thread itself? Let’s extend the analogy: there’s a catholic scandal. There’s a thread about it, you don’t post at all in that thread. A while later there’s a very similar scandal with the guilty party being some organization that you are generally opposed to. You post in that thread lambasting that organization. Someone else says “ahh, but we know that you did not lambast the catholic church in that previous thread, lol ur a hypocrite”. That person is WRONG to do that, they have no evidence to make that claim. At that point, they could, I suppose, ask you for your opinion of the previous scandal, which is better than just outright accusing you of hypocrisy, but I think doing so is still pointless and even counterproductive for various reasons: (1) It’s a bizarre imposition (2) It makes the thread suddenly not about this new scandal, nor even about the difference between the new scandal the previous scandal, but suddenly all about whether Bricker happens to be a hypocrite. Ie, it’s a distraction (3) It implicitly assumes that the two scandals are SO similar that any difference in reaction to them must be due to hypocrisy. Which, given the vagaries of human behavior, is something that is actually fairly extraordinarily unlikely. If the people in that thread believe that those two scandals are so similar that they can be used as a hypocrisy litmus test, then it’s up to them to so demonstrate (4) And even if they pass all those hurdles, and they DO demonstrate that you’re a hypocrite, well, so what? I think Karl Rove is a big douchey hypocrite, but he’s also a very smart and knowledgeable person, and if he came into this thread and started making substantive arguments about voter ID, I think it would behoove us to actual rebut his arguments on substance, rather than just saying “wait, but he’s a hypocrite, we win”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3906 "2013-11-09T02:54:16Z")
So what? So YOU placed your lack of hypocrisy into play as evidence of your good faith: > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > You keep bringing this point up. > > If my party leaders passed a law with some flimsy pretext, and the law stated that the only polling place in a particular district would be in the lobby of a hospital, and I knew that a bunch of the Republicans in this district were members of a cult which had a rule that they could not go into hospitals, I would OPPOSE THAT LAW. I would NOT be all “well, it’s popular and there’s a pretext and at least SOME of the people who proposed MIGHT not be venally corrupt”. That law would be UNAMERICAN and I would NOT SUPPORT IT. > Why do you find that so shocking? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3907 "2013-11-09T03:25:37Z")
You bring up a worthy point: good faith. We see the Republicans in a full court press, with an array of legislative initiatives that run the gamut from petty to repulsive, a clear agenda to use legislative power to secure undeserved electoral victory. Of all these…curbing early voting, Sunday voting, making voter registration drives more difficult… voter id is likely the least offensive. Its a shit sandwich as well, but it has a dab of mayonnaise and some wilted lettuce. Good faith, yes, I think that is the very core of the issue, and I commend friend **Bricker** for bringing it to our attention. How might we best judge the good faith of the Republican Party when it comes to such issues as voting rights? What respect have they demonstrated when it comes to voter equality? It does no good to demand respect for the law when the laws are passed by hyenas. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3908 "2013-11-09T05:23:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So what? > > So YOU placed your lack of hypocrisy into play as evidence of your good faith: How does any of what I said have anything to do with lack of hypocrisy? In what universe does saying “I would act differently if the situations were reversed” have anything to do with hypocrisy or the lack thereof? Your position in this thread is “here’s a situation, here’s my position”. I said “if the situations were reversed, I would have a different position”. That’s not saying I’m not a hypocrite. Nor is it saying you ARE a hypocrite. Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it, until you bring it into it. ---
**Author:** ![zymurgistic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c6cbf5/32.png) [@zymurgistic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zymurgistic)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3909 "2013-11-26T02:17:32Z")
generally speaking, the TIME it takes for people to comply with changes in paperwork requirements has an inverse relationship to INCOME LEVEL. if you make a change just before the election, it is a safe bet that the result will be less poor people voting. in voting districts with large urban populations, the poor people tend to be heavily minority voters who vote strongly Democratic. it is therefore perfectly reasonable to impute a tactical motive to counties and states with Repub-controlled election boards who make such changes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3910 "2013-11-26T15:24:51Z")
> [@zymurgistic](#): > > generally speaking, the TIME it takes for people to comply with changes in paperwork requirements has an inverse relationship to INCOME LEVEL. if you make a change just before the election, it is a safe bet that the result will be less poor people voting. in voting districts with large urban populations, the poor people tend to be heavily minority voters who vote strongly Democratic. > > it is therefore perfectly reasonable to impute a tactical motive to counties and states with Repub-controlled election boards who make such changes. So your only objection is the timing? An ID requirement passed two years ago, but only put into effect now, is OK? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3911 "2013-11-26T15:46:16Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > But let’s be thankful he spends his efforts at SDMB instead of sabotaging the real world like his hero Karl Rove does. How do we really know what he doesn’t do in the real world? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3912 "2013-11-26T16:31:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How might we best judge the good faith of the Republican Party when it comes to such issues as voting rights? What respect have they demonstrated when it comes to voter equality? The world [does not hearken to your call.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/26/cnnorc-poll-democrats-lose-2014-edge-following-obamacare-uproar/?hpt=hp_t2) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3913 "2013-11-26T16:48:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The world [does not hearken to your call.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/26/cnnorc-poll-democrats-lose-2014-edge-following-obamacare-uproar/?hpt=hp_t2) Because a snapshot in time a year prior to the actual event is a definitive reality. I, on the other hand, have great faith in the GOP’s ability and talent to do and say multiples series of stupid things in the next twelve months. It’s pretty much their core competency nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3914 "2013-11-26T17:13:36Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Because a snapshot in time a year prior to the actual event is a definitive reality. > > I, on the other hand, have great faith in the GOP’s ability and talent to do and say multiples series of stupid things in the next twelve months. It’s pretty much their core competency nowadays. So – do you have a prediction for the 2014 midterms? Will the GOP increase their seats in the House? In the Senate? Or will they lose seats? I predict a gain of at least two seats in the Senate for the GOP, and no net loss in the House. You? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3915 "2013-11-26T17:16:35Z")
I found this interesting. That oh-so-horrible mandatory ID law that Texas passed sure had an effect on our last elections. > [@](#): > > The first Texas elections under a contentious new photo ID law drew interesting conclusions for an off-year election that normally draws a low amount of voters. > > There were nine proposed amendments to the Texas Constitution, and **the number of votes tallied was nearly double what it was in 2011**. Democrats and civil rights groups have long argued that voter ID requirements suppress turnout, particularly in poor and minority communities. Read more: [Voter turnout in Texas nearly doubles under new ID law | The Daily Caller](http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/13/voter-turnout-in-texas-nearly-doubles-under-new-id-law/#ixzz2llypEnNs) Yep, really suppressed the voters, it did. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3916 "2013-11-26T17:26:28Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Because a snapshot in time a year prior to the actual event is a definitive reality. > > I, on the other hand, have great faith in the GOP’s ability and talent to do and say multiples series of stupid things in the next twelve months. It’s pretty much their core competency nowadays. [Obamacare.gov](http://Obamacare.gov) is what we call an unforced error. There was even an opportunity for Obama to look like he was bending over backwards AGAIN by petting the Repu8blicans push off the Obamacare rollout by the 3 or 4 months it would have taken to fix the problem (I think we now know that Obama KNEW that the site was going to be a disaster). Both sides do stupid things. Its like they are competing for first palce in a foot shooting contest. Sure the Republicans have a fully automatic 10 gauge shotgun but the don’t seem to mind the pain quite as much. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3917 "2013-11-26T17:32:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The world [does not hearken to your call.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/26/cnnorc-poll-democrats-lose-2014-edge-following-obamacare-uproar/?hpt=hp_t2) > [@](#): > > …While the generic ballot question is one of the most commonly used indicators when it comes to the battle for Congress, the poll results are a long way from predicting what will happen next November… Missed that part, did you? And, of course, the question had to do with issues of voter equality, not a prospective on how those voters would choose. It appears you found that question uncomfortable, and chose to answer a question more to your liking. Now, have you an argument to make or would you prefer to play the rhetorical equivalent of dodgeball? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3918 "2013-11-26T18:19:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I found this interesting. That oh-so-horrible mandatory ID law that Texas passed sure had an effect on our last elections. > > Read more: [Voter turnout in Texas nearly doubles under new ID law | The Daily Caller](http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/13/voter-turnout-in-texas-nearly-doubles-under-new-id-law/#ixzz2llypEnNs) > > Yep, really suppressed the voters, it did. Tried and failed is the same thing as not trying? Really? I can get mileage out of that! “Sure, honey, I tried to bone your sister, but she said 'No” so I’m not guilty!" Yeah. That’ll work. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3919 "2013-11-26T19:37:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Missed that part, did you? > > And, of course, the question had to do with issues of voter equality, not a prospective on how those voters would choose. It appears you found that question uncomfortable, and chose to answer a question more to your liking. Yes. In fact, I’ll make you a deal. Republicans can win the elections, and you’ll get to keep announcing how horribly mean and unfair they are to the voters. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3920 "2013-11-26T23:19:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. In fact, I’ll make you a deal. Republicans can win the elections, and you’ll get to keep announcing how horribly mean and unfair they are to the voters. How about I’ll make you a deal… we’ll come up with an actual fair and just voting system, including no gerrymandering, and we’ll actually let the will of the people decide who should be in congress. If Obamacare is such a catastrophe that 55% of people vote Republican next election, and that results in Republicans having a 55-45 majority in the house and gains in the senate and possibly the presidency, I won’t complain at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=195) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=197)