# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 199
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3961 "2014-03-01T02:09:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, it wouldn’t, because if you’ve been paying any attention at all to this thread and/or to the news, you will know that we can’t count on every state government to cooperate in anything that might make voting easier. I wouldn’t disagree with anything in this statement. There should be a national ID that everyone is required to get. And people who can’t afford to pay, should get it for free. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3962 "2014-03-01T03:11:50Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I wouldn’t disagree with anything in this statement. There should be a national ID that everyone is required to get. And people who can’t afford to pay, should get it for free. But consider the implications: If there were such an ID, it could be keyed to correspond to a file in a database in Washington (or wherever) containing every single thing government at any level knows about you – current address, citizenship status, scanned copies of your birth certificate, marriage license(s), driver’s license and all driving-related records, school records, arrest records, tax returns, voting registration, draft registration, American passport if applicable, foreign passport if applicable, naturalization papers or green card if applicable, lawsuits in which you have been plaintiff or defendant, the records of any interaction with government you ever have had – all in one convenient click-accessible package. In the Information Age, it would not be at all difficult for an empowered agency to assemble some such thing. I’m not saying I’m for that or agin’ it, I’m just saying it is a possible and logical next step from any national ID system. One advantage is that voter registration would be unnecessary, or would be universal – your ID could serve as your registration, it already contains all information relevant to whether and where you can vote. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3963 "2014-03-01T03:36:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In the Information Age, it would not be at all difficult for an empowered agency to assemble some such thing. Yes, I agree. It would be great. One log in for everything. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3964 "2014-03-01T05:22:15Z")
Gotta say, the whole national id thing has long given me a case of the creeping Orwells. Strictly a visceral response, to be sure. Couple things would definitely help: A national id is a voter registration by definition. When used, that voter cannot vote again, but that voter may vote in any legal polling place in any location. But everyone who possesses such a card is a registered voter. Now, I don’t hold with cops stopping people for being brown and then inquiring as to their legal status. But if the card is at the federal level, then the card is federal level proof, and a state cop is obliged to regard it as such. Return the card, “Have a nice day”, tip your hat and vamoose! The card will have a defined set of information encoded, and no information will be encoded without the knowledge of the subject. However, information can be included at the discretion of the subject: blood type, donor status, things like that. Carrying the card will not be mandatory, being unidentified will not be criminalized, but the card will be required for any official interaction with the government. I could support that. Still creep me out, but I could still support it. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3965 "2014-03-01T07:12:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The card will have a defined set of information encoded, and no information will be encoded without the knowledge of the subject. They’d scan the card and the data in all the government databases would be available. Why would there be anything on the card other than your name, ID number and photo? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3966 "2014-03-01T15:11:04Z")
If all that data is available that easily, what difference does it make if the info is stored on the card? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3967 "2014-03-01T18:52:25Z")
The trouble is that the government fearing members of the right would rally with the ACLU to prevent a universal government ID. I’d be all for a universal ID, but so much of America is stupid and or afraid that it’s not politically feasible. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3968 "2014-03-01T21:44:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If all that data is available that easily, what difference does it make if the info is stored on the card? The difference is that if the info is stored in the magnetic strip on the card, an identity thief who stole the card could access it with the right equipment. If the card merely corresponds to a database-file, only public officials (and talented hackers) could use it to access the information. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3969 "2014-03-01T21:48:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But consider the implications: If there were such an ID, it could be keyed to correspond to a file in a database in Washington (or wherever) containing every single thing government at any level knows about you – current address, citizenship status, scanned copies of your birth certificate, marriage license(s), driver’s license and all driving-related records, school records, arrest records, tax returns, voting registration, draft registration, American passport if applicable, foreign passport if applicable, naturalization papers or green card if applicable, lawsuits in which you have been plaintiff or defendant, the records of any interaction with government you ever have had – all in one convenient click-accessible package. In the Information Age, it would not be at all difficult for an empowered agency to assemble some such thing. > > I’m not saying I’m for that or agin’ it, I’m just saying it is a possible and logical next step from any national ID system. > > One advantage is that voter registration would be unnecessary, or would be universal – your ID could serve as your registration, it already contains all information relevant to whether and where you can vote. Granting, I’m assuming that such a database **does not already exist**. . . ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3970 "2014-03-01T21:53:31Z")
> [@](#): > > …the government fearing members of the right … Oh, wow, just imagine if Obama recommended that tomorrow morning. By mid afternoon, you step outside, sounds like popcorn cooking, what with all the tighty righty heads exploding. They would go into full spastic shit-fit mode. Now, if President Romney had suggested it, they would pitch it the same way they always do, with fear and anger. National ID makes it easier to catch illegal immigrants and deport them, it makes welfare fraud harder for those Cadillac Queens, it will help prevent voter fraud especially by illegal aliens (who always vote Democrat!). Since felons and welfare bums will have a\* provisional\* ID, that means anyone who has the first class ID is a _boney fido_ American, so the ID can double as a concealed carry license. Yeah, they could sell that. Same way they sell everything they sell. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3971 "2014-03-02T01:32:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The difference is that if the info is stored in the magnetic strip on the card, an identity thief who stole the card could access it with the right equipment. If the card merely corresponds to a database-file, only public officials (and talented hackers) could use it to access the information. And, yes, most of the information in question is publicly accessible, but only with a lot of work, not conveniently gathered and organized in one location. (I assume; see post #3969.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3972 "2014-03-02T01:34:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Since felons and welfare bums will have a\* provisional\* ID . . . Well, not necessarily, but the card would show or could be used to determine their status as felons or welfare recipients. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3973 "2014-03-20T13:51:49Z")
[New ruling from a W-appointed federal judge:](http://www.salon.com/2014/03/20/a_new_low_in_the_gops_despicable_war_on_voters_partner/) > [@](#): > > In a U.S. District Court ruling Wednesday that could dramatically upend the voter registration process if it spreads across the country, a Kansas judge found that his state and Arizona can force new voters to show citizenship documents when registering to vote—as opposed to signing a legal oath on the federal voter registration form. > > “State election officials maintain authority to determine voter eligibility,” wrote District Judge Eric Melgren, appointed by President George W. Bush, in a GOP-backed suit that went after an obscure agency, the Election Assistance Commission, which designs the federal voter form found in post offices and used in registration drives. “Arizona and Kansas have established that their state laws require their election officials to assess the eligibility of voters by examining proof of their U.S. citizenship beyond a mere oath.” > > The documentation, if upheld by higher courts, would mean that residents in these and other states with similar laws, like Georgia and Alabama, would have to present either a passport, birth certificate, naturalization or tribal papers to become a legal voter. A driver’s license, college ID, or signature given under penalty of perjury would no longer suffice. Thus, if Melgren’s decision—which follows a template laid out last June by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia in an earlier phase of this case—stands, the GOP’s right wing will have created a new barrier to voting. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3974 "2014-03-20T15:00:12Z")
They should’ve driven a stake through Jim Crow’s heart and stuffed his mouth with garlic before they buried him upside down at the crossroads. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3975 "2014-03-20T15:00:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [New ruling from a W-appointed federal judge:](http://www.salon.com/2014/03/20/a_new_low_in_the_gops_despicable_war_on_voters_partner/) I suspect that this sort of “proof of citizenship” requirement might backfire on the Republicans. There are a few groups of people that are more likely to have proof of citizenship than most. Those who travel internationally (passports), recently naturalized immigrants, and those on public assistance (with the slew of Republican anti-illegal immigrant “citizenship requirements” most folks on public assistance have ready proof of citizenship). None of these are traditionally part of the republican base. How many illegal aliens do they really think are voting? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3976 "2014-03-20T15:12:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I suspect that this sort of “proof of citizenship” requirement might backfire on the Republicans. There are a few groups of people that are more likely to have proof of citizenship than most. Those who travel internationally (passports), recently naturalized immigrants, and those on public assistance (with the slew of Republican anti-illegal immigrant “citizenship requirements” most folks on public assistance have ready proof of citizenship). None of these are traditionally part of the republican base. > > How many illegal aliens do they really think are voting? That assumes that the new qualifications are actually enforced equally on all voters. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3977 "2014-03-20T16:25:12Z")
One assumes that those who were already registered to vote will be grandfathered in. As with the original [grandfather clause](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause) the goal is to freeze the current voting rolls as they are now in order to fight the coming demographic shift. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3978 "2014-03-20T16:52:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The trouble is that the government fearing members of the right would rally with the ACLU to prevent a universal government ID. I wasn’t aware the ACLU had weighed in on the national-ID issue, nor of any reason they’d oppose it. But yeah, let the survivalist nuts and fundamentalists resist. They’d probably vote Republican anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3979 "2014-03-20T20:49:06Z")
[Wisconsin Republican Legislator Tears Into His Own Party For Voter Suppression](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/03/19/3416499/wisconsin-senator-voter-suppression/) > [@](#): > > As his own party pushed through the Wisconsin Senate the latest in a series of measures to make it harder to vote in the state, Sen. Dale Schultz (R) blasted the efforts as “trying to suppress the vote” last week. > > Schultz, who is not seeking re-election and was the lone Republican to oppose a bill last week to limit the hours of early voting in every jurisdiction in the state, was a guest on The Devil’s Advocates radio program on Madison’s 92.1 FM last Wednesday. Asked why his party pushed the bill, Schultz responded, “I am not willing to defend them anymore. I’m just not and I’m embarrassed by this.” > > Schultz argued that this and dozens of similar bills before the Senate this were based on “mythology” that voter fraud is a serious concern: “I began this session thinking that there was some lack of faith in our voting process and we maybe needed to address it. But I have come to the conclusion that this is far less noble.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/3980 "2014-03-20T21:20:02Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The trouble is that the government fearing members of the right would rally with the ACLU to prevent a universal government ID. > > I’d be all for a universal ID, but so much of America is stupid and or afraid that it’s not politically feasible. A national ID that acted as a driver’s license, organ donor card, gun license, voter ID. Sounds good to me. Lets set up shop and pass them out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=198) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=200)