# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 204
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4061 "2014-05-11T21:36:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > There’s always a chance the whole campaign might backfire and increase voter turnout beyond what might be expected in a midterm (which would be bad for the Pubs); people appreciate a thing most when someone is trying to take it away from them. I think that is where progressive campaign money should be spent; paint the Republicans as anti-voting rights, out to keep the poor away from the polls. There was a significant willingness to stand in line for how ever long it took in 2008 and 2012; if that determination can be mobilized to overcome vote suppression, we could see a larger turnout among the traditional Democratic base. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4062 "2014-05-11T23:05:50Z")
The Constitution give Congress the right to set the time, place and manner of elections. It is not unreasonable to argue that the first amendment was not intended to displace that authority. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4063 "2014-05-11T23:56:38Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > The Constitution give Congress the right to set the time, place and manner of elections. It is not unreasonable to argue that the first amendment was not intended to displace that authority. But does “manner” extend to legislating how campaigns are funded? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4064 "2014-05-12T02:10:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yes, its legal and constitutional. But legislation that knowingly and openly benefits one political party over another is a perversion of justice. Which the Democrats abhor? [Nope.](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/24/massachusetts-legislature/massachusetts-legislature-flip-flops-governors-sen/) > [@](#): > > Massachusetts legislators this week approved a bill that allows the governor to appoint a temporary successor to Kennedy. But that came just over five years after legislators stripped the governor’s longstanding power to appoint a U.S. senator to fill a vacancy. Both moves were consistent in one sense: In the strongly Democratic state, they advanced the Democratic Party’s interests. But the two actions amount to a resounding flip-flop. Your furious condemnation of that move still echoes in the memory of all who heard it. I remember how strongly you raged, raged, against that particular perversion of justice. “Let no perpetrator of this foul deed be hidden from the righteous rebuke of the voters,” I think you cried out. Or maybe that wasn’t you. Maybe you were the guy that shrugged. It’s so hard to recall. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4065 "2014-05-12T02:12:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Which the Democrats abhor? No, I don’t recall **elucidator** ever asserting that; and: > [@Bricker](#): > > [Nope.](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/24/massachusetts-legislature/massachusetts-legislature-flip-flops-governors-sen/) What’s that got to do with this? The justice/injustice of these Pub voter-suppression tactics stands on its own, without relation to anything Dems might have done – which, in this instance, bears no relationship whatsoever to voter suppression/turnout. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4066 "2014-05-12T02:13:55Z")
I also fondly remember Senator Torkelson exiting a race at the last minute because he would lose and the Democrats replacing him in violation of the law. Now in Michigan, who wants to bet that John Conyers will be on the ballot despite not getting enough signatures? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4067 "2014-05-12T02:15:06Z")
Anyway, in regards to ID, elderly people are the most likely to not have it, and the elderly these days vote Republican. So it is not obvious that such laws benefit Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4068 "2014-05-12T02:15:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I also fondly remember Senator Torkelson exiting a race at the last minute because he would lose and the Democrats replacing him in violation of the law. > > Now in Michigan, who wants to bet that John Conyers will be on the ballot despite not getting enough signatures? See post #4065. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4069 "2014-05-12T02:16:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > . . . when Democrats are actually on a campaign to intimidate and silence their critics. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What on Earth are you talking about? Campaign-finance reform would not clearly benefit either party over the other; it cuts across that divide. The point of it is to reduce the political influence of the rich, over **both** parties. I repeat. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4070 "2014-05-12T02:21:45Z")
You know what kind of laws blatantly help Democrats: the myriad of laws in the last two decades making voting easier and easier. Democrats know they have an unmotivated base that can’t even find their way to the polls on election day without someone knocking on their door and then driving them a half block to their polling place. And that’s assuming they even bothered to register. So Democrats have been trying to make registration nearly automatic(motor voter), and trying to make the actual voting as convenient as possible. There’s no question this is simply to help their base vote(and it’s still not working all that well), yet Democrats moralize that these changes are actually “rights”, sacred rights that must never be rolled back. No, it’s just Democrats trying to find ways to win elections with a base that doesn’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4071 "2014-05-12T02:23:00Z")
BrainGlutton, Democrats are in a tizzy over the Koch Brothers attacks on vulnerable Democratic Senators. I see that the talking points have gone from “corporations have no rights” to “billionaires have no rights. And they are un-American too”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4072 "2014-05-12T02:51:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, I don’t recall **elucidator** ever asserting that; and: > > What’s that got to do with this? The justice/injustice of these Pub voter-suppression tactics stands on its own, without relation to anything Dems might have done – which, in this instance, bears no relationship whatsoever to voter suppression/turnout. Elucidator suggests that his concern is neutral, and grounded in the desire to ensure that legislation should not be used to benefit one political party: > [@elucidator](#): > > But legislation that knowingly and openly benefits one political party over another is a perversion of justice. That language is designed to persuade the reader that his concern is neutral, a pure matter of fair play. But in fact, his concern – and yours – ebbs and flows depending on who benefits from the action. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4073 "2014-05-12T03:13:11Z")
Billionaires do have rights, just not more than the rest of us, and certainly not in the policical realm. We both have the right to free speech, but if I am standing on a soapbox in the village square and someone comes along with a sound truck, drowning me out, it’s hard to argue that my right to free speech has not been infringed. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4074 "2014-05-12T03:16:09Z")
Then Fox news has to be limited as well, and we certainly have to do something about the ability of political parties to spread their message. The issue isn’t that billionaires have more rights than you, it’s that you believe that Rush Limbaugh has more rights than Sheldon Adelson. You already support a privileged class of people who can drown the rest of us out, you just don’t think the Kochs and Adelson should be part of that privileged class. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4075 "2014-05-12T03:48:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Elucidator suggests that his concern is neutral, and grounded in the desire to ensure that legislation should not be used to benefit one political party: > > That language is designed to persuade the reader that his concern is neutral, a pure matter of fair play. > > But in fact, his concern – and yours – ebbs and flows depending on who benefits from the action. You’re projecting. Just because you’re not a good person, hardly means that others suffer the same limits. If Dems were doing the same thing I’d be against it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4076 "2014-05-12T03:51:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then Fox news has to be limited as well, and we certainly have to do something about the ability of political parties to spread their message. > > The issue isn’t that billionaires have more rights than you, it’s that you believe that Rush Limbaugh has more rights than Sheldon Adelson. You already support a privileged class of people who can drown the rest of us out, you just don’t think the Kochs and Adelson should be part of that privileged class. This is subtle, so think about it before you respond with whatever nonsense strikes your fancy. Rush Limbaugh isn’t the same thing as an advert. Rush Limbaugh needs to be sought out to hear his opinion. A flyer, a robo-call or a commercial isn’t something that must be sought out. Ads aren’t the same thing as opinion pieces. Well, maybe at FOX News. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4077 "2014-05-12T04:01:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You know what kind of laws blatantly help Democrats: the myriad of laws in the last two decades making voting easier and easier. :rolleyes: **No,** sir, those are not laws that help **Democrats,** those are laws that help **democracy.** You do, of course, approve of **that?!** ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4078 "2014-05-12T04:03:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You know what kind of laws blatantly help Democrats: the myriad of laws in the last two decades making voting easier and easier. So you’re admitting that Republicans can’t possibly win an ACTUAL majority? In other words, the more fully that democracy is realized, the worse Republicans do? Do you really want to head in that direction? Because I just can’t imagine it redounding to your greater benefit. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4079 "2014-05-12T04:18:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: **No,** sir, those are not laws that help **Democrats,** those are laws that help **democracy.** You do, of course, approve of **that?!** Democracy is not helped by cajoling the unmotivated to vote, and failing that, making it actually require effort NOT to vote, which seems to be the goal here. I’m waiting with baited breath for the next two proposals from Democrats: abolish midterm and special elections(since their voters don’t turn out for those), and just make a person’s registration their actual vote if they list a party. That way you only need to vote if you want to! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4080 "2014-05-12T04:20:45Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > So you’re admitting that Republicans can’t possibly win an ACTUAL majority? In other words, the more fully that democracy is realized, the worse Republicans do? Do you really want to head in that direction? Because I just can’t imagine it redounding to your greater benefit. Democracy depends on an informed and motivated citizenry. Democrats are engaged in a concerted effort to mobilize the uninformed and unmotivated. And to further that strategy, they want to reduce the amount of unapproved political speech that reaches the masses. A banana republic is impossible if you don’t let the government control the flow of information. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=203) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=205)