# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 218
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4341 "2014-05-19T14:25:45Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Putting aside weasel words like “slightly”, what if the number of very few people unable to cast votes is historically larger than than the number of very few known cases of voter fraud? “Unable?” Then I’d be extremely supportive of mandating additional resources towards removing whatever barriers were creating the inability. This would preserve the benefits of Voter ID, and almost certainly have ancillary benefits as well: life is surely difficult without ID for reasons apart from being unable to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4342 "2014-05-19T14:25:59Z")
On reflection, is “voter confidence” one of those conveniently nebulous concepts, like the “specialness” of heterosexual marriage as defended by magellan01? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4343 "2014-05-19T14:26:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Me: The problem Voter ID solves is voter confidence in the result of an ultra-close election. Actually, you didn’t say that. And you would have been wrong if you had said it. Nothing about the 2000 election controversy involved questions of fraudulent or invalid votes being cast. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4344 "2014-05-19T14:29:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Unable?” Umm… “yes?” > [@](#): > > Then I’d be extremely supportive of mandating additional resources towards removing whatever barriers were creating the inability. This would preserve the benefits of Voter ID, and almost certainly have ancillary benefits as well: life is surely difficult without ID for reasons apart from being unable to vote. Great. Got any examples of politicians who are advocating for voter ID laws who are also advocating for streamlining of the issuing of said IDs? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4345 "2014-05-19T14:39:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Bricker** , according the the SDMB search function, you mentioned this central concern first on 10/31/2013, and once again, on the same day. And then not again until yesterday. > > Did you use some other phrase to convey your desperate worry about…what?..“squeekers”? Was it “super-dooper close” elections? Because “ultra close” wasn’t it. I’m beginning to think you have some severe problems with memory, or with your ability to use common Internet search tools. Or both: From 2006: > [@Come on! Let's have some proof, already, that "false voters" really are a problem!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-on-lets-have-some-proof-already-that-false-voters-really-are-a-problem/374125/22): > > Why is that the next step? > > The question is not, “Has it changed an election?” > > The question is: “Could it change an election?” > > When Florida 2000 was a matter of less than a 1,000 vote-margin, we can certainly concede that it’s possible a future state may also be decided by such a razor-thin margin. If that happens, then we can certainly imagine that fraudulent votes affected the results, and work NOW to solve the problem. From 2012: > [@Pennsylvania Upholds Voter ID Law](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-upholds-voter-id-law/631582/33): > > No, we would not. > > Our confidence is also affected by the knowledge that we could see a repeat of Florida in 2000 or Washington State in 2006, where a very small number of illegal voters could swing a result. A few dozen cheaters does affect confidence. And pretty much in every thread on the subject in between and since. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4346 "2014-05-19T14:40:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Umm… “yes?” > > Great. Got any examples of politicians who are advocating for voter ID laws who are also advocating for streamlining of the issuing of said IDs? Got any examples of people who are unable to vote? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4347 "2014-05-19T14:48:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Got any examples of people who are unable to vote? [Sure](http://www.uscatholic.org/articles/201306/how-new-laws-are-preventing-voters-casting-their-ballot-27424). Now having answered your question, please answer mine. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4348 "2014-05-19T14:51:35Z")
It was never about preventing, it was about making it harder. Preventing would not have worked, the very same principled Republicans who so staunchly rejected this repulsive exercise would have been even _more_ critical. Neither of them would have accepted it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4349 "2014-05-19T15:16:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This type of concern is precisely why Voter ID laws don’t worry me. I am very concerned about being able to vote. I am more than willing to obtain and keep current photo ID, in order to ensure that my vote will always count. It seems like youa re saying that complying with voter ID laws isn’t much of a burden. Does it matter to you that this minimal burden is greater on some than others, by design. > [@adaher](#): > > Do you have a problem with requiring people to maintain and keep current ID to make a living? Do you have a problem with requiring people to be literate to make a living? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4350 "2014-05-19T15:28:41Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [Sure](http://www.uscatholic.org/articles/201306/how-new-laws-are-preventing-voters-casting-their-ballot-27424). I didn’t read anything in that long article identifying anyone who was unable to vote. Please quote the text that you are relying upon that shows someone unable to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4351 "2014-05-19T15:30:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It seems like youa re saying that complying with voter ID laws isn’t much of a burden. Does it matter to you that this minimal burden is greater on some than others, by design. I don’t agree that it’s by design. I agree that it’s a secondary effect of the rule, and that some Republicans support the plan because of this secondary effect, but I don’t agree it’s by design. And as long as the burden is minimal, it does not matter enough to me to reject the plan. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4352 "2014-05-19T15:35:15Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4353 "2014-05-19T15:42:01Z")
“Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania: Done.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4354 "2014-05-19T16:14:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania: Done.” Shhhh! Don’t you know it’s RUDE to remind the Counselor and **adaher** that their party is the metaphorical smoking ruins of a combination crooked casino and insane asylum? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4355 "2014-05-19T16:27:13Z")
As long as they’re going to insult our intelligence with tawdry and obvious lies about their motives, _of course_ they need to be shown that shit doesn’t work. The Counselor is known for his reverence for court rulings, and his glee in citing them in any situation he finds applicable. But not the PA one, for some odd reason. Wonderwonderwonder … ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4356 "2014-05-19T17:11:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree that it’s by design. You’re lying. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4357 "2014-05-19T17:20:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree that it’s by design. I agree that it’s a secondary effect of the rule, and that some Republicans support the plan because of this secondary effect, but I don’t agree it’s by design. Evidence that you are wrong is the context. Republicans are proposing a bunch of new laws about elections, of which voter ID is one. The rest of the laws? Well, if there were a large number of Republicans who were interested in the issue of voter confidence, then you’d expect the rest of the laws to be things that would actually address that issue, such as mandating electronic voter machines with human-verifiable paper output, and things to verify IDs when it came to mail-in votes, etc. Instead, the package of laws of which voter ID laws are a part involve cutting voting hours, eliminating early in-person voting, and so forth. So the evidence suggests that the intended effect of the law is voter suppression, and the effect on voter confidence that you’re so fond of is, at best, secondary. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4358 "2014-05-19T17:26:49Z")
Don’t interrupt him while he’s looking for an example of Republican politicians trying to improve and ease the process of getting the required ID’s. It’ll be any minute now, I’m quite sure, any minute now … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4359 "2014-05-19T17:26:53Z")
Well, _some_ Republicans had nefarious motives, true. But just some! The rest of them, principled Republicans, men of strict moral fortitude, spoke out firmly opposed to such…ah…_sordid_ behavior! Really, there were whole bunches of them! Wasn’t quite fair of me to ask for their names so I could praise them, 'cause there were so _many_! (Personally, because I still respect the man, I think Barry Goldwater would have totally rejected the whole idea…) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4360 "2014-05-19T17:41:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I didn’t read anything in that long article identifying anyone who was unable to vote. Please quote the text that you are relying upon that shows someone unable to vote. Okay, on the understanding that you won’t just turn around and say “anecdotal evidence doesn’t count.” There’s [Dorothy Card](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/26/2683971/dorothy-card-voter-id/), an elderly Texas woman who’s never had a problem voting before, but may do so now because she can’t get the necessary ID, despite several good-faith efforts. I realize she’s not technically been blocked from voting, simply because an election has not yet occurred since this latest round of voter-ID efforts. I expect we’ll have more anecdotes come November. That said, it’s not _that_ big a deal, I guess, in the larger sense. If 0.1% of the population is disenfranchised (to address a problem that perhaps occurred 0.0001% of the time), it shouldn’t affect elections any more than, say, the weather. If you’re okay with disenfranchisement of some of your fellow citizens, of course. And of course, I add as afterthought, you’re still invited to name a politician promoting voter ID laws who is also promoting making those IDs easy to get for the whole electorate. We mustn’t forget that, of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=217) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=219)