# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 224
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4461 "2014-05-20T15:44:43Z")
Never happen. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4462 "2014-05-20T15:51:05Z")
And who are these people who’s voter confidence is at risk? Are they, perhaps, Republicans? People who know, for sure and for certain, that America is a center-right country, with its heartland in full accord with Republican principles? How then are they to explain otherwise inexplicable election results? How to explain why a solidly conservative electorate is not reflected in the results? How could it anything other than treachery and perfidy on the part of Democrats? And aren’t the smoldering embers of doubt fanned by those who hope to benefit? Anecdotes of personal observation of treachery on the part of CASA volunteers, perhaps? How might that impact the confidence of the voter? Why, who knows how many illegal aliens are herded together and bussed from polling place to polling place, to nibble away at the foundations of the Republic? We might know, if we had laws in place to pursue such scoundrels, but alas! No. We are left with only supposition and insinuation, but that isn’t their fault! By fanning the flames of doubt, aren’t you, in truth, the very disease you appear eager to cure? How much voter confidence would be bolstered if you guys simply shut up about it? And what about the voter confidence of the affected voter? How is his confidence bolstered by watching his Republican legislators put hindrances in his path? Tell me, if you can, how that can possibly be a net positive. Or even “beyond positive”, whatever the Hell _that_ means! How many snipe hunts have we witnessed, with tireless investigators relentlessly pursuing the evasive snipe? And returning with a bountiful harvest of _bupkiss._ Of course, all that is required is a simple leap of faith, that our laws do not permit such a truth to be revealed, so lets just assume its the truth anyway, and get busy fixing something that may or may not exist. This isn’t about “voter confidence”, its about Republican voter confidence, the voter confidence of the ignorant and ill-informed. We could fix the ignorance with information but no! No, better to penalize the innocent, better to hamper and harass the shat-upon. Its easier for them, they are used to it. Or soon will be. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4463 "2014-05-20T18:25:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Let me remind Counsellor that the thread topic is _**“I Pit the (ID-demanding) GOP vote-suppressors”**_. The “ID” is just a parenthetical adjective – the thread encompasses all GOP vote-suppression malice. So what? My argument in this thread is not about “all GOP vote-suppression malice.” I am arguing in favor of laws that generally require a government-issued photo ID in order to cast a ballot. I am not arguing in favor of reduced voting hours, purging voter rolls, or poking voters with sharp sticks as they wait in line to vote. I am arguing in support of Voter ID laws. > [@](#): > > Counsellor has posted almost 700 times in this thread (:eek: 😕), apparently to solve a self-imposed logic puzzle! > [@](#): > > @ Bricker – Do you acknowledge that, had malicious GOP authorities had their way, that effect on election integrity would have been larger, most probably by a factor of at least ten, compared with the reality of the problems your voter ID solves? No. > [@](#): > > Do you finally realize, after so many hundreds and thousands of posts, that this thread is not about some hypothetical defect-free voter ID system, but rather malicious GOP election plans, thwarted or not, and based on voter ID or not? Sure. But my particular argument within this thread is about Voter ID. And that’s all. > [@](#): > > Do you admit that, however corrupt you think Democrat politicians are, the GOP is certainly worse, with > [ul] > [li] a wide range of measures to disenfranchise Democrat voters (IANAL but surely some of this behavior is criminal)[/li][li] sabotaging credit rating etc. with Congressional stunts[/li][li] feeding on American racism (“I don’t know if he’s born in Kenya.” – which Bricker would be the first esquire to jump in for: “He’s under oath, your Honor, and honestly doesn’t know personally where the President was born.” :smack: )[/li][/ul] No. I’ve never said the line you attribute to me, nor have I ever remotely defended the Birthers and their insanity. I have opinions about the shutdown, but I don’t think this is the place to discuss them. I doubt any of the behavior is criminal, but some of it I don’t support. But Voter ID: I do. > [@](#): > > Do you admit that GOP vote-suppressors, whether they demand ID or not, are one of the most heinous breeds of party villains ever to appear? Bricker should condemn them also, and not in uncertain terms. No. I support Voter ID. Other measures may, or may not, be heinous. Mention a method, I’ll give you an opinion. > [@](#): > > “never depend on name-calling” 😕 My arguments don’t depend on name-calling, but many GOP leaders really do deserve utter contempt. Some Democrat Congressman have faults, but none approaches the (feigned?) bitterness and hatreds, perfidy, hypocrisy, and even (feigned?) lunacy common among present-day GOP congresspeople and top commentators. Indeed? You’d be hard-pressed to find me calling names in this or any other thread. But I can point to you, and many others, calling me names. > [@](#): > > Multiple choice: Is this GOP behavior > admirable > wrong > other. Do you agree that top Democrats, whatever their faults, are nowhere nearly as outrageous? No. If you want a weighing of all GOP behavior against all Democratic behavior, then I believe that while both Democrats and Republicans have their scoundrels, most people in each party are genuinely interested in improving the country. And most people in each party have dramatically different views of the proper role of government, which leads to dramatic differences in policy proposals. But on balance, I believe the Democrats are not the wisest choice to craft policy. This is not all or nothing, mind you–many cases exist where the Democrats are better. In the case of all proposals relating to voting, I’d say the Democrats are generally in the better position, but not with respect to Voter ID. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4464 "2014-05-20T18:31:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > This isn’t about “voter confidence”, its about Republican voter confidence, the voter confidence of the ignorant and ill-informed. We could fix the ignorance with information but no! No, better to penalize the innocent, better to hamper and harass the shat-upon. Its easier for them, they are used to it. Or soon will be. When an election in which millions of votes are cast is decided by 139 votes, it amazes me that you would argue only Republican voters would worry about the integrity of the result. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4465 "2014-05-20T19:07:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …integrity… You use that word a lot. I do not think it means what you think it means. [/inigo] The integrity is cast further in doubt by making it harder for orders of magnitude more people of one party to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4466 "2014-05-20T19:12:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When an election in which millions of votes are cast is decided by 139 votes, it amazes me that you would argue only Republican voters would worry about the integrity of the result. I don’t believe that these laws have anything at all to do with the integrity of results. They’re about suppressing opposition votes. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4467 "2014-05-20T19:16:24Z")
I think that campaign finance reform is about suppressing speech. Outright censorship, actually. But I at least understand that most people on the other side don’t see it that way. But if they assume bad motives, I’ll assume they are projecting and their intention is actually to prevent criticism of Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4468 "2014-05-20T19:24:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think that campaign finance reform is about suppressing speech. Outright censorship, actually. > > But I at least understand that most people on the other side don’t see it that way. But if they assume bad motives, I’ll assume they are projecting and their intention is actually to prevent criticism of Democrats. Not at all. Campaign finance reform is needed because unfortuately money sways public opinion. In the absence of controls,the side with the most mone winds up the winner. Look at the 2012 primaries where Romney was able to carpet bomb each rising challenger into oblivion. Look at the amount of money spent to demonize the ACA. Money buys opinion. It would be nice if the electorate was so well informed as to be immune to propaganda but it isn’t. So it isn’t about suppressing speech, it’s to ensure that money doesn’t drown out the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4469 "2014-05-20T19:27:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think that campaign finance reform is about suppressing speech. Outright censorship, actually. > > But I at least understand that most people on the other side don’t see it that way. But if they assume bad motives, I’ll assume they are projecting and their intention is actually to prevent criticism of Democrats. Yet when Republicans actually pass laws to make it harder for Democratic voters to vote, we’re supposed to assume the purity of their motives and their love for the Republic? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4470 "2014-05-20T19:28:22Z")
I disagree with pretty much everything you said, but I don’t doubt your sincerity. I just think you’ve been misled by opinion leaders(politicians and journalists) who aren’t happy about the new competition. They value their kingmaker roles and have no intention of letting the common man step into the vacuum left by driving the billionaires out of politics. They want a return to the status quo ante, where they decided who won and who lost, and most of all incumbents didn’t get defeated as often. With regard to voter ID, it’s been explained why we favor it: the same reason the vast majority of Americans favor it. The same reason liberals support ID requirements for virtually everything else where they don’t have a political interest: to prevent fraud. If we can agree that ID is necessary to practice a basic, 1st amendment right to petition your representives for redress of grievances, then we should be able to agree that it’s necessary for the right to vote, which does not carry the same level of guarantees that 1st amendment rights do. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4471 "2014-05-20T19:30:43Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Yet when Republicans actually pass laws to make it harder for Democratic voters to vote, we’re supposed to assume the purity of their motives and their love for the Republic? No. First off, you shouldn’t assume sincerity or desire for the common good in ANYTHING legislators pass. If Democrats just voted their consciences, half of their accomplishments wouldn’t even exist. A lot of their caucus has always needed to be bought, and the health care bill was no exception. Secondly, there’s an easy way for Democrats to avoid this problem: pass their own voter ID laws, as they did in Rhode Island. I bet that if we made Rhode Island a model for the entire country, the vast majority of people would be satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4472 "2014-05-20T19:53:24Z")
[quote=“septimus, post:4460, topic:624943”] [li] feeding on American racism[/li][/QUOTE] What about Mexican racism? Mexico requires voter ID. So Mexico is racist against Mexicans. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4473 "2014-05-20T19:56:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When an election in which millions of votes are cast is decided by 139 votes, it amazes me that you would argue only Republican voters would worry about the integrity of the result. I pointed out once already: voter ID laws are almost exactly as likely to cause a narrow result as they are to prevent it. Your understanding of statistics may be not sufficient and slightly beyond the positive. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4474 "2014-05-20T20:05:30Z")
True, but if the results are sure to be only living, eligible voters, then the results are more reliable. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4475 "2014-05-20T20:09:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When an election in which millions of votes are cast is decided by 139 votes, it amazes me that you would argue only Republican voters would worry about the integrity of the result. A guy is walking through an office and sees someone down on his hands and knees carefully examining the carpet. “What are you looking for?” “My contact lens.” So the first guy gets down on the floor to help him look. After 15 minutes, they still haven’t found it. “I don’t see it anywhere. Where did you lose it?” “Over there, under the desk.” “Under the desk? Why are we looking here?” “Because the light is much better here.” My concerns about our electoral process have to do with accurate and repeatable counting measures, and nonpartisan commissions to draw district boundaries. Voter-ID laws don’t address the areas that I feel are lacking in integrity. But if you’re looking to make it harder for certain people to vote, the light is so much better here. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4476 "2014-05-20T20:21:39Z")
Your analogy is close, actually. To me, it’s low hanging fruit. It’s something the vast majority of Americans agree on, it’s just Democratic partisans who oppose it for reasons of electoral advantage. If i had my druthers, I’d rather deal with the holes in the registration process that allow dogs, 6-year olds, and non-citizens to get voter cards. I’d also like to see the absentee ballot process tightened up considerably(that’s where the real mass fraud occurs). But those things are hard and contentious. Voter ID is easy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4477 "2014-05-20T20:29:13Z")
Democrats derive an electoral benefit from voter fraud? Can you support that extraordinary assertion with…anything? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4478 "2014-05-20T20:35:04Z")
\*\*adaher \*\*morality: If he believes it, it’s not a lie. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4479 "2014-05-20T20:35:17Z")
I didn’t say that. I just said that not requiring ID gives Democrats an electoral advantage. I do believe personally that Democrats benefit from voter fraud, or at the very least ineligible people mistakenly casting ballots because they don’t realize they are ineligible and the system lacks efficient means to keep them from registering. But without systematic investigations, there’s no way to know the extent of the problem. However, I think everyone would agree that the looser the ID requirements, the easier it is for Democrats. Although this could be changing with the elderly vote moving decisively towards the GOP in recent years. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/4480 "2014-05-20T20:40:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I didn’t say that. I just said that not requiring ID gives Democrats an electoral advantage. Wrong again, unsurprisingly. Being supported by more people is what gives the Democrats that advantage. Do you understand the difference between an advantage and the lack of a disadvantage? > [@](#): > > I do believe personally that Democrats benefit from voter fraud Based on what facts? :dubious: > [@](#): > > But without systematic investigations, there’s no way to know the extent of the problem. How convenient. :rolleyes: Guess we’ll have to go with your “beliefs” instead, huh? > [@](#): > > However, I think everyone would agree that the looser the ID requirements, the easier it is for Democrats. And the better for democracy. > [@](#): > > Although this could be changing with the elderly vote moving decisively towards the GOP in recent years. More of your bullshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=223) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=225)