# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 311
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6201 "2014-09-17T01:29:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The Republicans would fight it tooth and nail. I have no idea what rationale they might use to oppose such, but haven’t the slightest doubt that they would. I don’t think I can rebut a claim about what would happen in a hypothetical scenario that is buttressed by your lack of doubt. > [@](#): > > Of course, this is my gratuitous assertion. But I’ll punch your lights out to prove it! That’s about the level of citation I have come to expect, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6202 "2014-09-17T01:41:19Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I’m trying to decide if a long time Doper doesn’t recognize a _Monty Python_ reference (from one of their better known skits), or if you’re just trying to play along, or what? That’s not the quote. > [@](#): > > M: An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. > > O: No it isn’t! > > M: Yes it is! 'tisn’t just contradiction. > > O: Look, if I _argue_ with you, I must take up a contrary position! > > M: Yes but it isn’t just saying ‘no it isn’t’. > > O: Yes it is! > > M: No it isn’t! > > O: Yes it is! > > M: No it isn’t! > > O: Yes it is! > > M: No it ISN’T! Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says. And Michael Palin is right. An argument must begin with an assertion, one supported by citation to fact. Such an argument cannot be dismissed by gainsay alone. But when the assertion is gratuitous – unsupported – then it’s outside Palin’s character’s rule, and may indeed be dismissed by simple denial. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6203 "2014-09-17T01:43:13Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I yield to few in my lifetime arguing-with-Bricker rating, and I don’t see what’s dumb about it at all. > > In fact, I think the past few posts by the anti-Bricker side have been rather flawed. The argument isn’t “there is NO voter fraud, it could NEVER be an issue, therefore trying to combat it is a lie”. Because then all Bricker has to do is come up with a single example of voter fraud EVER to disprove your argument. And as long as any possibility for voter fraud could exist then there’s some chance it could swing an election. > > In fact, eliminating voter fraud WOULD be a good thing, kind of by definition. Whether it’s a sufficiently good thing to outweigh the negative side effects of the laws under discussion is what this debate is about. (Along with whether it WOULD in fact actually eliminate voter fraud, how serious those negative side effects would be, to what extent nefarious intent should be factored in, and many many other things.) Thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6204 "2014-09-17T05:49:51Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The argument isn’t “there is NO voter fraud, it could NEVER be an issue, therefore trying to combat it is a lie”. Because then all Bricker has to do is come up with a single example of voter fraud EVER to disprove your argument. 😕 In other words, I should have used “rabid grizzly bear” in my analogy rather than “rabid unicorn”? I’ve published papers in scientific journals and know how to write precisely. I thought here we’re casual, and adult enough to understand hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6205 "2014-09-17T13:43:53Z")
Don’t sweat it - Bricker resorts to disingenuous nitpicks when he’s losing. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6206 "2014-09-17T15:41:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 In other words, I should have used “rabid grizzly bear” in my analogy rather than “rabid unicorn”? > > I’ve published papers in scientific journals and know how to write precisely. I thought here we’re casual, and adult enough to understand hyperbole. Using hyperbole while debating with Bricker is literally the worst idea in the history of mankind. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6207 "2014-09-17T15:52:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t think I can rebut a claim about what would happen in a hypothetical scenario that is buttressed by your lack of doubt… Please be advised that not every one of my posts are directed to you. No rebuttal on your part is actually called for. However, if you are so compelled, you might best approach the question by listing the many, many times that Republicans have supported voter registration drives and/or initiatives to make voting easier, other than outreach efforts to gated communities. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6208 "2014-09-18T02:13:42Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Don’t sweat it - Bricker resorts to disingenuous nitpicks when he’s losing. It’s not possible for him to recognize he’s losing if he’s procedurally correct. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6209 "2014-09-18T03:02:44Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > It’s not possible for him to recognize he’s losing if he’s procedurally correct. That would make him mentally ill, I figure. I think he’s just ideologically blinkered and prone to convenient bouts of doublethink, myself. I vaguely suspect his Catholic upbringing, especially in light of his recent “unintended secondary result” comment, i.e. if the nominal goal is to reduce voter fraud, it’s okay if the “unintended secondary result” is poor minorities voting less. Isn’t that how Catholics rationalize abortion sometimes, i.e. do something that may be unnecessary but borderline justifiable and if it happens to also terminate a pregnancy, well… what God doesn’t know won’t hurt him. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6210 "2014-09-18T05:58:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That would make him mentally ill, I figure. I think he’s just ideologically blinkered and prone to convenient bouts of doublethink, myself. I vaguely suspect his Catholic upbringing, especially in light of his recent “unintended secondary result” comment, i.e. if the nominal goal is to reduce voter fraud, it’s okay if the “unintended secondary result” is poor minorities voting less. Isn’t that how Catholics rationalize abortion sometimes, i.e. do something that may be unnecessary but borderline justifiable and if it happens to also terminate a pregnancy, well… what God doesn’t know won’t hurt him. I don’t think that’s the issue. He’s fairly clear on what his basic beliefs are even if he’s unwilling to just flat out state them. I suspect he believe that strictly holding to the legal system will in the long run product the greater good and he’s willing to accept that as the governing entity even over the short term demands of his religious affiliation. What I think he believes but really isn’t willing to cough up is that anyone that can’t overcome the barriers currently being put up to voter registration doesn’t deserve to vote. If he could do it, ALL of them can regardless of circumstance. I think he realizes that if he actually admitted that, he’d be done in the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6211 "2014-09-23T13:37:21Z")
[Did you really think it couldn’t get any worse?](http://www.salon.com/2014/09/23/gops_vote_suppressing_militia_why_scott_walkers_thugs_are_getting_violent/) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6212 "2014-09-23T13:55:35Z")
Two bits says they will post, they will bluster, and they will threaten. What they won’t do is show up. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6213 "2014-09-24T03:02:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Did you really think it couldn’t get any worse?](http://www.salon.com/2014/09/23/gops_vote_suppressing_militia_why_scott_walkers_thugs_are_getting_violent/) Is **Bricker** still around? It might be amusing to get his take on this. Democracy at its finest? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6214 "2014-09-24T13:20:26Z")
I’m sure there’s a valid neutral justification somewhere in there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6215 "2014-09-24T14:20:06Z")
Its a hoax, guys and gals. > **[Log in or sign up to view](https://www.facebook.com/justiceforwisconsin)** > > See posts, photos and more on Facebook. Forget to credit **Kobal2** , cub reporter… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6216 "2014-09-25T14:32:49Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Is **Bricker** still around? It might be amusing to get his take on this. Democracy at its finest? My take is that some of the liberals represented here are fucking morons: > [@](#): > > Fact: This page was made by one person. No conspiracy, no militia, no paid funding…just one guy. > > Fact: Unethical bloggers and journalists reacted to this page as if it were true without even bothering to contact the page itself. > > Fact: Every one of the leftist idiots spewing nonsense and attributing the page to multiple people got it wrong. I hope they are sued for defamation. Serious fucking morons. If you wanted to truly fight ignorance you’d stand in front of a mirror and punch yourselves bloody. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6217 "2014-09-25T15:20:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you wanted to truly fight ignorance you’d stand in front of a mirror and punch yourselves bloody. We’re talking about **septimus** - he’d lose. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6218 "2014-09-25T15:22:36Z")
Yeah, it was troll-hoaxing, and we can all be glad. But is your suggestion based on the notion that lefties were the only people who bought it? True enough, it appears that lefties were quick to renounce, denounce, and condemn. How about tighty righty reaction? The relative silence, that was because they were too smart to believe it? That the premise you are hoping to sell here? Because there is _another_ explanation, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6219 "2014-09-25T15:26:44Z")
Does it matter if it was true? People BELIEVED it, and I thought that was all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6220 "2014-09-25T15:59:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Does it matter if it was true? People BELIEVED it, and I thought that was all that matters. So quickly forgotten, the voodoo example. Or deliberately not recalling. Stay away from mirrors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=310) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=312)