# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 320
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6381 "2014-10-02T13:11:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > “One-way ratchet” is how you described his position - I see nothing in his posts supporting this as a concept he embraces or advances, nor any in which he uses the phrase (well, prior to the post immediately before this one, which was not there when I started to write) or explicitly or tacitly agrees with its usage. You were arguing against something solely of your own creation. I didn’t create this post: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think it would be good for New York to offer it. Taking it away once it’s in place is a bad action. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6382 "2014-10-02T13:12:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I didn’t create this post: There are other posts in which I expanded upon my beliefs of why the OH action is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6383 "2014-10-02T13:24:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I didn’t create this post: No, but you chose to ignore that the “it” refers to a specific practice and generalized to imply a belief in “one way ratchet” law. You took an exagerrated interpretation so you could challenge that interpretation, even while accusing others of using strawman arguments. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6384 "2014-10-02T15:11:23Z")
I don’t think it’s at all controversial that laws RESTRICTING rights should face stricter scrutiny than laws EXTENDING rights. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6385 "2014-10-02T15:20:54Z")
Still, if the “one-way ratchet” had been, in fact, an _actual_ argument, \*\*Bricker’\*\*s rebuttal would have been cogent, intelligent, and precise. Gotta give him that one. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6386 "2014-10-02T15:25:19Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I don’t think it’s at all controversial that laws RESTRICTING rights should face stricter scrutiny than laws EXTENDING rights. But that would restrict the rights of Republicans to manipulate elections! Won’t someone PLEASE think of the Republicans?! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6387 "2014-10-02T15:25:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > No, but you chose to ignore that the “it” refers to a specific practice and generalized to imply a belief in “one way ratchet” law. You took an exagerrated interpretation so you could challenge that interpretation, even while accusing others of using strawman arguments. As you pointed out in post 6369, then, isn’t the proper response to clarify the argument? In this case, I don’t agree that “it” referred to the specific practice, because I asked a general question. But perhaps you’re right – that’s what the proponent of the argument needed to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6388 "2014-10-02T15:27:46Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I don’t think it’s at all controversial that laws RESTRICTING rights should face stricter scrutiny than laws EXTENDING rights. I’m not sure I agree that a law reducing days that voting is possible is fairly called “restricting” a right. But the discussion seems to be clear now that there are plenty of permissible reasons for a state to reduce voting days or hours, and of course plenty of impermissible ones as well. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6389 "2014-10-02T15:29:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are other posts in which I expanded upon my beliefs of why the OH action is bad. But you now agree that as a general principle, it’s not correct to say we can automatically determine removing a voting day to be bad – that it depends on the specific factors surrounding the decision, yes? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6390 "2014-10-02T15:30:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But you now agree that as a general principle, it’s not correct to say we can automatically determine removing a voting day to be bad – that it depends on the specific factors surrounding the decision, yes? Yes. I thought my other posts made that clear, since I was critical of this OH decision for specific reasons that may or may not apply in other cases (and which you’ve chosen to ignore, perhaps, to go down this rabbit hole). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6391 "2014-10-02T15:56:26Z")
Bricker, you realize that if you have to slice the “ratchet” issue down to an atom in order to claim victory, all you get is an atom? Meanwhile, there remain untamed elephants of irrationality trampling through your argument. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6392 "2014-10-02T16:02:12Z")
**Bricker** , when you nitpick and argue like a stereotypical TV lawyer, as you seem to be doing here, it really doesn’t seem to advance anyone’s knowledge, understanding, insight, etc., on this issue. What I’m really curious about is this: do you believe at least some significant part of the motivation of Republican officials on voter ID and rolling back early voting (and similar actions) is to help Republicans politically by reducing Democratic turnout? And if so, do you believe this is morally wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6393 "2014-10-02T16:06:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But you now agree that as a general principle, it’s not correct to say we can automatically determine removing a voting day to be bad – that it depends on the specific factors surrounding the decision, yes? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes. I thought my other posts made that clear, since I was critical of this OH decision for specific reasons that may or may not apply in other cases (and which you’ve chosen to ignore, perhaps, to go down this rabbit hole). OK. So: refresh my recollection. What are the specific factors in this case that make the Ohio decision “wrong?” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6394 "2014-10-02T16:08:59Z")
He’s previously stipulated the former. To the latter, he can point only to polls of the underinformed while neenerneenering those in the more-informed minority. But at no time has he discussed the value of supporting and strengthening democracy itself as a moral good, despite numerous entreaties. The concept is incomprehensible to him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6395 "2014-10-02T16:09:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. > > So: refresh my recollection. What are the specific factors in this case that make the Ohio decision “wrong?” Answered in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17779110#post17779110). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6396 "2014-10-02T16:11:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **Bricker** , when you nitpick and argue like a stereotypical TV lawyer, as you seem to be doing here, it really doesn’t seem to advance anyone’s knowledge, understanding, insight, etc., on this issue. Tell me: > [@Trinopus](#): > > You are the single most dishonest person on this entire message board. Does this “…advance anyone’s knowledge, understanding, insight, etc., on this issue?” But it’s my failure to do so that triggers your remonstration, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6397 "2014-10-02T16:13:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What I’m really curious about is this: do you believe at least some significant part of the motivation of Republican officials on voter ID and rolling back early voting (and similar actions) is to help Republicans politically by reducing Democratic turnout? Yes. Not sure how “significant,” but it’s certainly more than a scintilla, or a trivial amount. > [@](#): > > And if so, do you believe this is morally wrong? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6398 "2014-10-02T16:14:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. > > So: refresh my recollection. What are the specific factors in this case that make the Ohio decision “wrong?” > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Answered in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17779110#post17779110). This is that post: > [@](#): > > The trend over the last few years, without significant evidence of actual voter fraud, of Republicans focusing efforts in swing states and swing districts to alter voting requirements, including eliminating and shrinking alternate and early voting, along with statements by Republican officials that these actions will help them win elections by reducing Democratic turnout. Which of these happened in Ohio? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6399 "2014-10-02T16:15:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Tell me: > > Does this “…advance anyone’s knowledge, understanding, insight, etc., on this issue?” It advances my knowledge, understanding, and insight about **Trinopus** ’s opinion of you. 😉 > [@](#): > > But it’s my failure to do so that triggers your remonstration, eh? C’mon, admit it. You love this stuff. You can’t get enough of it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6400 "2014-10-02T16:17:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Which of these happened in Ohio? All of it except perhaps for the statements part (I’m still googling), which definitely occurred in neighboring states and are part of this pattern. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=319) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=321)