# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 334
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6661 "2014-10-15T16:19:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > To be fair, we should make a distinction between having a minimal requirement, and then increasing that requirement for no good reason. We’ve been a tad remiss in stating this distinction, but I think it’s been consistently implied. Isn’t that exactly what Indiana did when they enacted SEA 483? Yes, it is. Of course, “…for no good reason…” is only your view. Obviously, the people of Indiana disagreed. But that’s exactly what happened, and the law was upheld, and it exist today in glorious splendor. (It does not apply in Raratonga, though – tickets available!) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6662 "2014-10-15T16:38:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Crawford v. Marion County. A transparent and flimsy evasion of my points. Sure, so long as voter id is valid, neutral and justifiable, no prob. But the GAO report offers firm evidence that, at the very least, these laws are not being applied in a neutral fashion, but are having a specific and verifiable partisan effect. You have repeatedly dismissed the malicious motivation of “some” partisan Republicans as being irrelevant so long as “valid neutral justification” is applicable. The GAO report offers firm evidence that this is not the case. So, your reference to _Crawford_ is an evasion. And the malicious intent is revealed to have malicious consequences. And if you have some court decision that legitimizes laws that “stack the deck” in favor of a particular party, you have yet to offer them. I remain hopeful that you would find such legislation repugnant and unjust. Do I misunderstand? Seems your position was _Crawford_ declares voter id laws to be legitimate so long as they are based upon valid neutral justification. Are we to understand that the ruling declares voter id laws valid _regardless_? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6663 "2014-10-15T16:40:07Z")
Even \*Crawford \*doesn’t say that, only that the “justification” should not be _disregarded_. **Bricker** ’s lying. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6664 "2014-10-15T16:44:23Z")
In his defense, let it be noted that he isn’t very good at it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6665 "2014-10-15T16:45:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The GAO report offers firm evidence that this is not the case. No, it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > So, your reference to _Crawford_ is an evasion. And the malicious intent is revealed to have malicious consequences. No, it isn’t. And the laws continue in effect. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6666 "2014-10-15T16:47:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of course, “…for no good reason…” is only your view. Obviously, the people of Indiana disagreed. Oh, no doubt many, many Indianans, proud scions of one of the Klan’s hottest hotbeds, thought the reason was very good indeed. And so did the judges, products themselves of the same environment, who shared their fears. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6667 "2014-10-15T17:03:09Z")
> **[Elections: Issues Related to State Voter Identification Laws \[Reissued on...](https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-14-634)** > > What GAO Found The studies GAO reviewed on voter ownership of certain forms of identification (ID) documents show that most registered voters in the... You missed this? You could google “GAO report voter id” and find an avalanche of analysis of the report. Think you can find any that supports your position, or are you content to make sweeping and grand statements without support? Are you offering a faith-based position, such that no evidence is required? Oh, wait! Is the GAO report a lie, based on liberal hypocrisy? Can you say anything you are capable of proving, beyond stamping your foot and declaring “Nunh-uh!” Setting aside the question of “valid”, it most definitely is not “neutral”. You deny that? Your evidence being…well, what, exactly? ETA: Sorry, did not notice your declaration of “neener-neener”. Which is as solid an argument as any you’ve made lately. My apologies, clearly the issue is settled. Silly, silly GAO! They should have checked with you, saved all that time and effort! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6668 "2014-10-15T17:06:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Surveys don’t lie, dude. Yeah, that’s your job. > [@](#): > > People were asked about requiring Voters to provide ID. That’s what Voter ID laws do; that’s what they were asked; this is what they answered. Does it even pass through your mind that if you have to be disingenuous in order to defend a point, maybe it’s not something you should defend? Voter ID is a concept. The carrying out of that concept is what’s in question. If there was a poll that 67% support feeding the hungry, that wouldn’t mean that 67% of people support forcibly restraining and tube feeding the hungry without asking. Think hard about this, you’re stupid and a liar, but I know you can get this: Supporting feeding the hungry doesn’t mean you support it as a means to brutalize poor people. Wait, that means that people can support Voter ID, while at the same time, not want it implemented in such a way as to deny poor people the vote. Gosh, I bet even you can understand that, right? > [@](#): > > That’s why these laws exist. No, these laws exist because the GOP saw an opportunity to provide a small push to themselves at the polls. > [@](#): > > My advice is move to Raratonga. There are probably no Voter ID laws there. Maybe there are, though. Still, the weather is nice, so you’ll have that going for you. My advice is for you to stop pretending you’re a Christian. Because your hatred of poor people is completely out of line with it. Jesus, in the way you picture Him never existed. But if He did, He’d overturn your table. Also, I already live on an island, so I’ve got better weather than the muggy hellhole you’re living in. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6669 "2014-10-15T17:10:23Z")
That’s what it was! Bricker is such a pussy, he stayed out of this thread until Texas reinstated its voter ID law. He knew without gloating smugly, he had no play whatsoever. Ha, you fucking fringe! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6670 "2014-10-15T17:22:08Z")
Same time as the Texas anti-abortion law getting stayed, and all those clinics reopening, though. Bittersweet. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6671 "2014-10-15T17:34:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [Elections: Issues Related to State Voter Identification Laws [Reissued on February 27, 2015] | U.S. GAO](http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-14-634) That’s a link to a long document. Cite the part you contend says that valid neutral justification does not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6672 "2014-10-15T17:35:34Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Wait, that means that people can support Voter ID, while at the same time, not want it implemented in such a way as to deny poor people the vote. No one wants that. Voter ID laws don’t do that. That’s why everyone likes Voter ID laws. Yay laws! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6673 "2014-10-15T17:41:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Voter ID laws don’t do that. When did you stop even trying? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6674 "2014-10-15T17:43:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Isn’t that exactly what Indiana did when they enacted SEA 483? > > Yes, it is. Of course, “…for no good reason…” is only your view. Yes, and I can mofify my view if I’m presented with evidence that I should, because I am intellectually honest. Got any? Evidence, that is. The evidence that convinced the people of Indiana might be a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6675 "2014-10-15T17:43:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No one wants that. Voter ID laws don’t do that. That’s why everyone likes Voter ID laws. GOP officials want that. Voter ID laws do do that. That’s why people who are informed, and also are not dishonest twats don’t like the laws as implemented. > [@](#): > > Yay laws! So, attend any good abortions recently? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6676 "2014-10-15T17:51:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s a link to a long document. Cite the part you contend says that valid neutral justification does not exist. The whole report is about how it isn’t neutral. We can dispense with the valid and justification parts, since you’ll never recognize that they aren’t true either. More troubling is your continued lie that something you can pretend is a “valid neutral justification” is still not controlling, according to the very ruling you so highly cherish. Do you think you’re winning a game of some kind here? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6677 "2014-10-15T17:53:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So, attend any good abortions recently? Or executions, for that matter. I don’t recall any time that Bricker expressed his dislike of abortion or capital punishment that anyone said he was obviously opposed to democracy or should leave America. On reflection, it’s not inconceivable that I said something like that. If so, I hope I had enough maturity to not take such a lame attempt at humour and repeat it within the same thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6678 "2014-10-15T17:59:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yes, and I can mofify my view if I’m presented with evidence that I should, because I am intellectually honest. > > Got any? Evidence, that is. The evidence that convinced the people of Indiana might be a good place to start. Sure. SEA 483. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6679 "2014-10-15T18:26:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure. SEA 483. Is that the law or the evidence the law is a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6680 "2014-10-15T18:49:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is that the law or the evidence the law is a good idea? It’s evidence that the people of Indiana thought Voter ID was a dandy idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=333) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=335)