# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 337
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6721 "2014-10-19T02:27:21Z")
I’m not talking about reaching the true believers, those beyond hope or reason. Nothing short of an affidavit from God Almighty countersigned the Archangel Gabriel is going to do it. But for a lot of people, people who don’t want to believe this is a scheme cooked up to slant the election, its easier to believe that the moonbats are wildly exaggerating the effect of these laws, that really its only a minor inconvenience for a trivial number of people. True, only those tighty rightys who are amendable to evidence will be changed, but likely they _both_ vote! And, of course, legend has it that the courts are swayed more by fact than ideology. Its been mentioned before in these pages, how attorneys defending these laws admit that their evidence of voter fraud is tenuous. But, they claim it is significant enough to be a valid neutral justification because the negative effect is so minor, a mere inconvenience. So, we got evidence, they got diddly squat. According to theory, we should win. After all, Posner changed his mind, and if he’s a lefty moonbat, then I really\* am\* the Queen of Romania. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6722 "2014-10-20T08:49:07Z")
This thread was begun more than two years ago. During this lengthy period of time, most people who lacked a photo ID but needed one to vote, could have gotten one. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6723 "2014-10-20T13:03:47Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This thread was begun more than two years ago. > During this lengthy period of time, most people who lacked a photo ID but needed one to vote, could have gotten one. > Just saying. Don’t be absurd. The people in need of IDs each work eight full-time jobs apiece and the IDs are offered only in one tiny location, in a sub-basement behind a locked door marked “Beware of the Stobor.” By racists. Or so the past two years of posts would suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6724 "2014-10-20T13:14:56Z")
[Food for thought.](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/Clothahump/VoterID_zps2a025d7d.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6725 "2014-10-20T13:15:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Don’t be absurd. The people in need of IDs each work eight full-time jobs apiece and the IDs are offered only in one tiny location, in a sub-basement behind a locked door marked “Beware of the Stobor.” By racists. > > Or so the past two years of posts would suggest. Let’s assume your attempt at ironic exageration is off by a factor of 1000, ie the real circumstance is only a thousandth as dire as you describe, if your description was taken seriously. It’s still larger than the problem ostensibly being addressed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6726 "2014-10-20T13:20:55Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > [Food for thought.](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/Clothahump/VoterID_zps2a025d7d.jpg) Here’s a thought - does the Indian government strive to distribute voter IDs to all voting citizens? Are the various U.S. states under discussion doing that, or planning to do that? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6727 "2014-10-20T13:30:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Here’s a thought - does the Indian government strive to distribute voter IDs to all voting citizens? Are the various U.S. states under discussion doing that, or planning to do that? Every single state that requires Voter ID also distributes that Voter ID for free. No actual Stobor involved. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6728 "2014-10-20T13:40:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Every single state that requires Voter ID also distributes that Voter ID for free. Are you prepared to compare Indian voter ID distribution to that of Texas? Clothahump is suggesting we should, that if it can work in India, it should work in the U.S. If you.and I look into it, will we find Texas’s efforts to.put IDs into hands of its citizens is comparable to India’s efforts? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6729 "2014-10-20T13:44:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Every single state that requires Voter ID also distributes that Voter ID for free. > > No actual Stobor involved. Sure, and they all make it really easy to get it too. Like, “We’re open every fifth Wednesday of the month.” Like you said, though, the easy solution there is just to drive at 60 miles an hour to the next closest office. I have no doubt that every one of these “it’s no big deal” fuckfaces would pitch a huge bitch fit/flounce if they suddenly discovered that their preferred store made some slight change to their customer rewards program. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6730 "2014-10-20T13:48:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Are you prepared to compare Indian voter ID distribution to that of Texas? Clothahump is suggesting we should, that if it can work in India, it should work in the U.S. If you.and I look into it, will we find Texas’s efforts to.put IDs into hands of its citizens is comparable to India’s efforts? Bricker acknowledges that at least part of this whole enterprise is to reduce Democratic voter turnout, but he is also prepared to argue that these states make it easy to obtain the required ID. He is obviously a deceitful piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6731 "2014-10-20T13:58:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have always acknowledged that the motives for some people that are pushing plans like this are indefensible. > > I have resisted the inference that because some motives are impermissible, the plan as a whole becomes morally corrupt. Bringing this back up, **Bricker** , because it’s such a weak defense of the moral permissibility of this action. There’s no way to prove definitively what the primary motivators are, and in what ratio to other motivations, for those pushing such vote ID laws. That means that you can _always_ defend it in this way. It’s clear to some of us that this primary motivator for most of those pushing it is pure politics – make it harder for a mostly Democratic demographic to vote. If you were to be persuaded that this was in fact the primary motivator of most of them (and if you were persuaded that _it would work_ in reducing Democratic turnout), would you still defend it as morally permissible? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6732 "2014-10-20T13:58:39Z")
I went ahead and started some preliminary research on Indian voter registration procedure. Apparantly one can apply online, after which a Booth Level Officer will contact the applicant to complete the process. Does Texas (or any state in which this issue is currently under debate, I invite Bricker to choose one) have a comparable process and if so, what is it? Incidentally, the mere existence of voter ID isn’t and was never the issue - it was adding requirements to get the ID with the knowledge that some citizens would not be able to comply, or would face burdens in doing so, such voters expected to favour a particular party, as part of a strategy of election manipulation, under the specious excuse of preventing fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6733 "2014-10-20T14:45:15Z")
This is obvious in the way these states invest their money. They spend it advertising that official ID is required. They don’t invest it in telling people how to get official ID, or in facilitating the process. Actual governance on nearly any kind of change is preceded by impact studies. I cannot think of any examples wherein the proponents of these changes could answer even basic questions about how many people would be affected by these changes, let alone how many instances of in-person fraud exist. Lay proponents are even dumber; they typically don’t even know that you already have to provide proof of ID in order to register to vote. It’s a bald-faced desperate fraud, and Bricker is a full-throated proponent. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6734 "2014-10-20T14:51:17Z")
Could it be that a poor Indian has easier access to voter ID than a poor Texan? If so, shame on Texas, but if anyone has information otherwise… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6735 "2014-10-20T15:01:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I went ahead and started some preliminary research on Indian voter registration procedure. Apparantly one can apply online, after which a Booth Level Officer will contact the applicant to complete the process. > > Does Texas (or any state in which this issue is currently under debate, I invite Bricker to choose one) have a comparable process and if so, what is it? I don’t think Texas allows you to apply online. But the Indian online application must still be backed up by documentation showing identity, and each applicant must still journey to a “Designated Photography Locations (DPLs) or VRECs” to get photographed and receive their ID – things which i seem to recall gave you no end of tremors and fainting spells when Texas required them. > [@](#): > > Incidentally, the mere existence of voter ID isn’t and was never the issue - it was adding requirements to get the ID with the knowledge that some citizens would not be able to comply, or would face burdens in doing so, such voters expected to > favour a particular party, as part of a strategy of election manipulation, under the specious excuse of preventing fraud. So what? What is your proposal – to read the mind of each legislator and discount his vote if his motives are sufficient odious? Are the requirements themselves acceptable or not? I don’t give a rats ass about the alleged intentions or motives. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6736 "2014-10-20T15:03:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Could it be that a poor Indian has easier access to voter ID than a poor Texan? > > If so, shame on Texas, but if anyone has information otherwise… The Indian EPIC card is free, but the poor Indian is charged Rs 25/ if he loses his card. No charge if the Texan loses his. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6737 "2014-10-20T15:37:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t think Texas allows you to apply online. But the Indian online application must still be backed up by documentation showing identity, and each applicant must still journey to a “Designated Photography Locations (DPLs) or VRECs” to get photographed and receive their ID – things which i seem to recall gave you no end of tremors and fainting spells when Texas required them. Your memory is as suspect as your reasoning. So how many DPLs are in India? Are they easy to get to, easy to use? If we look into it and discover access is easier for an Indian earning $1.25 a day than for a Texan earning $50 a day, could we venture any hypotheses about the laws and their applications? > [@](#): > > So what? What is your proposal – to read the mind of each legislator and discount his vote if his motives are sufficient odious? I don’t have to read their minds. I can read their public comments. > [@](#): > > Are the requirements themselves acceptable or not? I don’t give a rats ass about the alleged intentions or motives. Personally, before I’d judge a government regulation _acceptable_, I’d like some evidence that it was _necessary_. I’m not seeing such evidence here. But let’s say for laughs that Texas added any number of requirements, while simultaneously allocating $100 million to set up a Voter Management Agency whose purpose was make it as easy as possible for Texans to meet those requirements, including online registration, registration offices in every neighborhood with long hours, even door-to-door outreach efforts similar to census-takers… the requirements might still be useless and unnecessary, but at least the blatantly partisan goal will be thwarted. But of course you don’t give a rat’s ass about that. I’ve not come to expect such from you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6738 "2014-10-20T15:39:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Indian EPIC card is free, but the poor Indian is charged Rs 25/ if he loses his card. > > No charge if the Texan loses his. That poor Indian better not lose his card, then. Good luck to the poor Texan in getting a card in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6739 "2014-10-20T16:02:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Indian EPIC card is free, but the poor Indian is charged Rs 25/ if he loses his card. > > No charge if the Texan loses his. This is what it looks like when Voter ID is _not_ part of a desperate partisan fraud by conservatives: > **[10 alternatives to Voter ID Card for voting on poll day.](https://www.dnaindia.com/pune/report-10-alternatives-to-voter-id-card-for-voting-on-poll-day-1979003)** > > With voting day almost here, those who have misplaced their Electoral Photo Identity Card (EPIC or Voter ID Card) or have not yet gotten it can use 10 other identity cards as proof of Indian citizenship in order to cast their vote, provided their... > [@](#): > > 10 alternatives to Voter ID Card for voting on poll day. > > With voting day almost here, those who have misplaced their Electoral Photo Identity Card (EPIC or Voter ID Card) or have not yet gotten it can use 10 other identity cards as proof of Indian citizenship in order to cast their vote, provided their name is in the electoral roll. > **[No voter ID? You can still vote - Times of India](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/No-voter-ID-You-can-still-vote/articleshow/33625251.cms)** > > Home News: Even if you don't get your Electors' Photo Identity Cards (EPIC), there is no need to panic. > [@](#): > > No voter ID? You can still vote > > BANGALORE: Even if you don’t get your Electors’ Photo Identity Cards (EPIC), there is no need to panic. If your name is in the voters’ list, you will be eligible to vote on April 17 with the support of some valid government ID proofs. > > Chief electoral officer Anil Kumar Jha told TOI, “Voter slips will be given to every enrolled voter by Saturday. If their names are on the electoral roll and they produce the voter slip, they can vote.” He said those deprived of voter slips also need not worry. There are 11 other testimonials which can be furnished for identity and age verification, he added. Do you conservative douchebags want to keep offering examples like India? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/6740 "2014-10-20T16:10:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m not a bitch, Willy. I’m the one winning this argument. It says a lot that you consider this an actual argument. I’m simply shooting random darts that you care not to respond to. Which is fine, but shows that you are indeed a bitch. > [@](#): > > As for your ignorance, you’ve only posted what, nine times in this thread. In those posts you’ve demonstrated that you think Democrats are the ones oppressing the poor in America. That’s just insane. If you want to say they aren’t doing enough, well I’d agree. Both parties oppress the poor, more specifically they oppress the politically unconnected for the benefit of the politically connected. Just so happens that the poor tend to be politically unconnected. What i actually said was that Democrats devote more resources towards removing barriers to voting than removing barriers to getting a job, starting a business, and staying out of jail. This is proof that they are bad people. They view the poor only as possible voters, they are not concerned with their well-being. They say it’s too hard to get ID, but they don’t actually care about ID barriers until ID is required to vote. > [@](#): > > But political considerations limit what can be done. I’d love it if we flipped a switch and transformed into Sweden, but reality dictates that it must be done in fits and starts. Are you aware of your racism? You hold up a racially homogenous country like Sweden as your Utopia. A bit disturbing when packaged with your complicity with Democratic efforts to harvest votes from minority communities. > [@](#): > > Primarily because 30% of our population has internalized GOP nonsense propaganda to the extent that they want creationism in schools, think a border fences is a sane solution, and deny AGW exists. This is why we can’t transform into your Powder White Socialist Utopia? What a shame. > [@](#): > > The insane people a generation of RW media propaganda act as a brake on social change. So if you’re upset that the Dems don’t transform society in the blink of an eye, your anger is misplaced. I don’t want to transform society in any way. At least not in a top-down method such as you would suggest. I simply want to emancipate individuals from territorial monopolists of law and force. > [@](#): > > Think about your feelings about voter ID. You blame Dems for not getting IDs to the poor. Instead of blaming the GOP for passing laws that disenfranchise them, you turn your ire on the Dems for not getting them IDs before the GOP got the chance to fuck them for not having IDs. That’s not reasonable. My feeling were made clear. I do not believe there exists such a thing as a right to vote. There is state granted privilege to vote, but I take it much less seriously than infringement on actual rights. Such as the right to engage in peaceful exchange. Government efforts to squash voluntary exchange hurt the poor more than efforts to revoke voting privileges. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=336) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=338)