# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 363
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7241 "2014-10-29T01:56:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, well, have the dictionary people been informed about this new meaning for the word, “neutral”? I freely admit, I had not, in fact, its totally news to me even now! > > So, it used to mean like “unaligned”, not favoring one side or the other, but now that’s different, huh? Now, in its expanded meaning, “favoring one political party” is now “neutral”? > > So, even if reliable evidence were offered that the law did, in fact, favor one party over another, that wouldn’t matter because “neutral” now means what you say it means? And you’re sure about this? Flocks of legal eagles nodding behind you in solemn agreement? Sure. Remember, by your admission, this is your litany of complaint, not any kind of a statement that the law is in some way legally defective. So why does it matter what “neutral” means? No twist of the word’s meaning will nullify the law. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7242 "2014-10-29T11:20:14Z")
Funny thing is, “legally defective” is a far more arbitrary term than “neutral”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7243 "2014-10-29T13:19:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Funny thing is, “legally defective” is a far more arbitrary term than “neutral”. Liberals are very much like Humpty Dumpty in this regard. > [@](#): > > ‘But “glory” doesn’t mean “a nice knock-down argument”,’ Alice objected. > > ‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7244 "2014-10-29T13:36:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Liberals are very much like Humpty Dumpty in this regard. Could be. By all indications, I’m not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7245 "2014-10-29T14:46:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Could be. By all indications, I’m not one of them. Sure you are. You’ve unselfconsciously gone from indignant denials that objections here have anything to do with legality to the claim that “legally defective” is an arbitrary term. Thus proving “I’m not one of them,” is itself uttered in the best Humpty dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7246 "2014-10-29T15:24:35Z")
No, I’m not one of your cartoon boogeymen. That you flailingly are trying to cast me as one instead of responding to the many specific flaws I’ve pointed out in your alleged reasoning is something I will take as evidence in support. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7247 "2014-10-29T15:34:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Jim Crow laws were popular in the South when they were in existence. Only if “popular” is limited to mean “popular among white people.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7248 "2014-10-29T15:37:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No it doesn’t. The Georgia study proves as much. > > Even if it did, I don’t care, because people that choose not to vote for such a trivial reason are not a concern. But it doesn’t. Wasn’t the Georgia law written while Georgia was still under the scrutiny of the Justice Department? Such that they had to have approval? And that approval was given, yes? By which we may reasonably conclude that Georgia’s laws survived such scrutiny, and found to be kosher. All well and good. Especially in light of the “voter outreach” program Georgia was at pains to point to with pride. We are not saying that voter id laws cannot be constructed and approved. We are not opposed to voter id laws as such, despite your repeated…nay, relentless!..efforts to pretend so. We are opposed to laws which are discriminatory and tilt the electoral field to the advantage of a particular party. If a voter id can be constructed and approved that does not suffer such grievous error, no problem. Indeed, there are any number of potential benefits offered by a voter id program with needed safeguards. So, all the Georgia study proves, then, is that such laws\* can\* be crafted that do not embody the problems we object to. No doubt, kinda the point, isn’t it? That since such laws _can_ be fairly done, they _should_ be fairly done. or not done at all! As to the second part of your post, when does discrimination become trivial? Do the targets of this discrimination share your view as to triviality? Are you entitled to make that detrmination? On what basis will this be decided, what is the threshold at which discrimination is no longer “trivial”? After all, moving to the back of the bus is only a few steps, a trivial inconvenience… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7249 "2014-10-29T15:38:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Only if “popular” is limited to mean “popular among white people.” Yes. I should have been more specific. After the Great Migrations, the black population of the South had shrunk to around 20-25% – Jim Crow was still in effect, and still popular with the (white) majority. My point to **Bricker** was that the popularity of this form of voter suppression does not make it legitimate, nor does it provide any indication of whether it will be considered acceptable in the future. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7250 "2014-10-29T15:52:49Z")
[For your viewing pleasure.](http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/29/la-raza-promotes-washington-post-guide-on-where-people-can-vote-without-an-id/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7251 "2014-10-29T15:58:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My point to **Bricker** was that the popularity of this form of voter suppression does not make it legitimate, nor does it provide any indication of whether it will be considered acceptable in the future. So, you’re saying it’s illegitimate? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7252 "2014-10-29T15:59:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes. I should have been more specific. After the Great Migrations, the black population of the South had shrunk to around 20-25% – Jim Crow was still in effect, and still popular with the (white) majority. > > My point to **Bricker** was that the popularity of this form of voter suppression does not make it legitimate, nor does it provide any indication of whether it will be considered acceptable in the future. Yes, but was it arrived at through an established legal process? If it was, and it’s popular, that’s all that matters. Trying to talk about any other aspect of it (as if there were any) just means that you want to subvert the democratic process and replace it with your own. Why do you hate America? I win! Neener, neener, neener. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7253 "2014-10-29T16:06:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, you’re saying it’s illegitimate? Morally, yes. And I believe that it could lead to some elections being perceived as illegitimate, just as we now see elections in the Jim Crow South as being illegitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7254 "2014-10-29T16:18:56Z")
This story – about [Eric Kennie](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/27/texas-vote-id-proof-certificate-minority-law) – pretty nicely encapsulates why I find Voter ID, as currently implemented in states like Texas, so problematic. It’s stories like this that erode my confidence in elections. The only thing I _do_ have confidence in, is that there are more going to be more people like Eric Kennie than the number of fraudulent votes Texas Voter ID laws will prevent. And tell me, **Bricker**. It looks like Eric Kennie has spent upwards of 20 hours sorting through the bureaucratic obstacles placed before him, _and_ spent $23 on a birth certificate (a very substantial sum to him – the equivalent of $315 for someone making $100k), and he STILL can’t vote this time around. Do you feel he esteems the vote too lightly? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7255 "2014-10-29T16:25:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, you’re saying it’s illegitimate? The authors of the legislation certainly are total bastards, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7256 "2014-10-29T16:26:24Z")
They disenfranchised Kennie! The bastards! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7257 "2014-10-29T16:45:04Z")
> [@Parthol](#): > > This story – about [Eric Kennie](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/27/texas-vote-id-proof-certificate-minority-law) – pretty nicely encapsulates why I find Voter ID, as currently implemented in states like Texas, so problematic. > > It’s stories like this that erode my confidence in elections. The only thing I _do_ have confidence in, is that there are more going to be more people like Eric Kennie than the number of fraudulent votes Texas Voter ID laws will prevent. > > And tell me, **Bricker**. It looks like Eric Kennie has spent upwards of 20 hours sorting through the bureaucratic obstacles placed before him, _and_ spent $23 on a birth certificate (a very substantial sum to him – the equivalent of $315 for someone making $100k), and he STILL can’t vote this time around. Do you feel he esteems the vote too lightly? What a bunch of horseshit. Do you read that article and think it’s a fair commentary on the issue? > [@](#): > > Earlier this month a federal district judge, Nelva Gonzales Ramos, struck down the law, slamming it as a cynical ploy on the part of Republicans to fend off the growing strength of the minority electorate in Texas by “suppressing the overwhelmingly Democratic votes of African Americans and Latinos”. > . > . > . > But last week, in the early hours of 18 October, when most Texans were sleeping, the US supreme court snuck out a one-line judgment that allowed the voter ID restrictions to be applied this election cycle. What cads! They did it when most Texans were sleeping! Why, the nerve of those back-stabbers. An honest Court would have waited at least until most Texans were awake. Anyway, the article itself takes every pain possible to hide the truth, but here it is: > [@](#): > > Or he could swallow his pride and take up the identity given on his birth certificate – turning himself into Eric Caruthers. He doesn’t want to do that – he said it would make his deceased father “turn in his grave”. It would also be profoundly ironic: he would in effect be impersonating someone else in order to get around a law ostensibly designed to root out impersonation at the polls. Wrong. He was born Eric Caruthers. That’s his legal name. It was never changed. He now wants to get an ID in the name of Eric Kennie without paying for a legal name change. And you credulous lot read this and think, “Yeah, he SHOULD be able to get an ID in the name of Eric Kennie, even though his legal name is Eric Caruthers, because racism!” ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7258 "2014-10-29T17:39:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What a bunch of horseshit. > > Do you read that article and think it’s a fair commentary on the issue? > > What cads! They did it when most Texans were sleeping! Why, the nerve of those back-stabbers. An honest Court would have waited at least until most Texans were awake. I don’t care for, or about, the “spin” of the article, for what it’s worth. I’m only concerned with the substance as presented. > [@](#): > > Anyway, the article itself takes every pain possible to hide the truth, but here it is: > > Wrong. He was born Eric Caruthers. That’s his legal name. It was never changed. He now wants to get an ID in the name of Eric Kennie without paying for a legal name change. From the article: > [@](#): > > "The birth certificate has him down as Eric Caruthers – his mother’s maiden name – even though his parents were married at the time he was born. > > I asked Kennie how it felt having been through so many hoops only to be told that he still couldn’t vote because of a bureaucratic cock-up that occurred 45 years ago. “It makes me hurt deep down inside, it really do,” he said. > [snip] > > “Or he could swallow his pride and take up the identity given on his birth certificate – turning himself into Eric Caruthers. He doesn’t want to do that – he said it would make his deceased father “turn in his grave”.” You’re all heart, **Bricker**. > [@](#): > > And you credulous lot read this and think, “Yeah, he SHOULD be able to get an ID in the name of Eric Kennie, even though his legal name is Eric Caruthers, because racism!” I think that after showing a voter registration card posted to his home address, or an expired DPS-issued photo ID, or a utility bill in his name – all of which he tried – he should be allowed to vote, just like he’s been doing his whole life. If only he had a concealed carry license like proper-thinking Texans! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7259 "2014-10-29T18:01:16Z")
" The Most Brazen Attempt at Voter Suppression Yet New revelations show GOP officials in key battleground states are attempting to purge millions of minorities from the voter rolls." > **[The GOP’s Most Brazen Attempt at Voter Suppression Yet](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/10/al-jazeera-america-reveals-massive-gop-voter-suppression-effort-millions-of-minorities-are-being-purged-from-voter-rolls-ahead-of-midterm-elections.html)** > > Let’s assume—despite what  most liberals suspect—that the most vocal voter ID boosters are sincere. That, as National Review’s Rich Lowry argues in... > [@](#): > > Liberal and Democratic claims of voter suppression aren’t just about voter identification, they’re about the package of policies and techniques that burden voters and shrink the electorate in the process. Indeed, it’s worse than this. Voter ID advocates insist that their reasonable moves are intended to protect the integrity of the process and the sanctity of the vote, but the reality is that their policies have created confusion and chaos for hundreds of thousands of voters. Put another way, there’s not a serious Republican effort to expand the electorate and bring new people into the process. But there is a major one to do the opposite. And it hasn’t popped up in response to threats to the sanctity of the vote—even conservatives are beginning to acknowledge there isn’t much voter fraud—it’s emerged in a world where electorates are increasingly filled with people who don’t support Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7260 "2014-10-29T18:07:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wrong. He was born Eric Caruthers. That’s his legal name. It was never changed. He now wants to get an ID in the name of Eric Kennie without paying for a legal name change. > > And you credulous lot read this and think, “Yeah, he SHOULD be able to get an ID in the name of Eric Kennie, even though his legal name is Eric Caruthers, because racism!” Is it not true that absent fraud, your legal name is whatever name you consistently hold out to be your legal name? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=362) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=364)