# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 366
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7301 "2014-10-30T18:29:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The statute typically sets out its purpose in the text. Even if it doesn’t, the State may defend its laws against challenge by articulating a permissible purpose, one that is rationally related to the function of the legislation. > > The intent of the legislators is not relevant – what’s relevant is what the law actually does. This was two pages ago now, but thanks for the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7302 "2014-10-30T18:33:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The value to the citizenry of Texas in ensuring that person who vote in Texas elections are who they say they are. Technically speaking in that situation it appears that they require he is who he says he _isn’t_, but hey. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7303 "2014-10-30T18:43:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [And here’s some more voter-roll purging.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/10/al_jazeera_america_s_reveals_massive_gop_voter_suppression_effort_millions.html) Every one of those officials you accuse of partisan suppression was elected or empowered by an electoral process. That’s democracy. If the voters don’t like it they can … Oh! Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7304 "2014-10-30T19:19:50Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Every one of those officials you accuse of partisan suppression was elected or empowered by an electoral process. That’s democracy. If the voters don’t like it they can … Oh! Nevermind. Sadly, _Second Amendment Remedies_ only sounds fun to the sort of cunts who’d steal the election anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7305 "2014-10-30T19:46:04Z")
As long as electoral power is at stake, this issue will never see agreement. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7306 "2014-10-30T19:51:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Every one of those officials you accuse of partisan suppression was elected or empowered by an electoral process. That’s democracy. If the voters don’t like it they can … Oh! Nevermind. Not to mention purges are required by law. Voter lists must be maintained. If Democrats don’t like the way Republicans do it, then they need to do it more responsibly, instead of not at all. And Greg Palast is not a reliable source. I believe that the purges are taking place, that’s the law, of course they are taking place. I just reject his characterization of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7307 "2014-10-30T20:02:42Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > As long as electoral power is at stake, this issue will never see agreement. There are remedies of varying effectiveness, but they might take a major political shift to implement in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7308 "2014-10-30T21:33:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not to mention purges are required by law. Voter lists must be maintained. If Democrats don’t like the way Republicans do it, then they need to do it more responsibly, instead of not at all. > > And Greg Palast is not a reliable source. I believe that the purges are taking place, that’s the law, of course they are taking place. I just reject his characterization of it. How very reassuring! Outside of your estimate of Mr. Palast’s worthiness as a source, have you anything substantial to offer? ---
**Author:** ![AHarris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@AHarris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHarris)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7309 "2014-10-30T22:53:22Z")
Apparently, New Mexico has decided that not being able to read english is sufficient justification to prevent someone from voting: [http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/new-mexico-begins-new-policy-of-refusing-voter-ids-to-navajo-speaking-illiterates/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/new-mexico-begins-new-policy-of-refusing-voter-ids-to-navajo-speaking-illiterates/) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7310 "2014-10-31T03:29:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How very reassuring! Outside of your estimate of Mr. Palast’s worthiness as a source, have you anything substantial to offer? By pointing out that purges are required by law, I think I already offered something substantial. Yes, yes, I realize that what the law is is an insignificant nitpick to Democrats in the Obama era. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7311 "2014-10-31T05:13:41Z")
> [@Parthol](#): > > I disagree. I think you leave out some factual stuff that goes to the heart of my objections. Oh heavens no! Leave out factual stuff? Not our man Bricker! He’s a LAWYER for gosh sakes. Facts and the law are all that matters. > [@Parthol](#): > > _A Texas man, who has voted legally his entire adult life, finds he can no longer use his old and reasonable forms of ID. He spends many hours traveling by bus and standing in long lines, and pays more than a day’s wages, to obtain a birth certificate, only to discover that said certificate doesn’t bear the name he’s been using for 45 years, and so is considered invalid. So after all that, he finds that he can either change his name, which carries significant emotional attachment for him, or not vote this year._ > > That’s a lot of bullshit to make someone wade through, and thousands of people, almost all of whom are poor and/or minorities, are going to have to wade through similar bullshit. Legal or not, that doesn’t sit well with me. Well, clearly you haven’t been paying attention because our man Bricker has made it clear, the only thing that matters is what’s legal. He’s a LAWYER y’know. If you don’t believe me ask him. He’ll tell you. And tell you. It’s what makes him THE MAN WHO KNOWS THE LAW. And as for wading through bullshit? Again ask our man Bricker. He knows bullshit better than anyone else when it comes to this topic because it’s the LAW! Or some other bullshit. The thousands of poor and minorities don’t matter to him by crackey! If they weren’t such lazy layabouts they wouldn’t be in this situation. It cost Mr. Kennie $23 to get a birth certificate? Our man Bricker doesn’t care because that’s less than a tenth of what his billable hourly rate is. After all, he’s a LAWYER. He could bury us all in copies of his birth certificate if needed. And probably afford to change his name every day if he chose; he’s a LAWYER! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7312 "2014-10-31T05:25:31Z")
Considering that a person needs ID to do just about anything in our society, if the process is filled with too much bullshit, the process needs to be changed. This same man faces a lot more hardships than just not being able to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7313 "2014-10-31T06:44:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This same man faces a lot more hardships than just not being able to vote. He may very well. But to him, being able to vote was something that was very important. And now it has been taken away for no better reason than because he is poor. Seems cruel and capricious to me but what do I know? I’m not a LAWYER. If I were I’d probably realize the integrity of the vote and upholding the LAW are all that matters. Who cares if the only demonstrable accomplishment of these laws was to disenfranchise the poor and minorities? They’re POOR. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7314 "2014-10-31T06:48:24Z")
IT’s not simply because he’s poor. It’s because he changed his name 45 years ago and never went through the proper legal procedures. Not exactly a common situation. Poor people have ID, because poor people need to work or receive EBT cards. Last I checked, poor people do not just starve in the streets for lack of ID. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7315 "2014-10-31T09:23:43Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > The thousands of poor and minorities don’t matter to him by crackey! If they weren’t such lazy layabouts they wouldn’t be in this situation. It cost Mr. Kennie $23 to get a birth certificate? Our man Bricker doesn’t care because that’s less than a tenth of what his billable hourly rate is. After all, he’s a LAWYER. He could bury us all in copies of his birth certificate if needed. And probably afford to change his name every day if he chose; he’s a LAWYER! Jesus, what a straw man. Bricker called out the bullshit in the lamentations over this “clear example” of voter suppression associated with a voter ID law. Turns out the outrage was spin. Texas law, unrelated to the voter ID law, has always been that if you want to change your name, you have to follow the legal process. You can’t just declare it so. So, we have a guy who spent the $23 already. However onerous you assess that burden, it’s a hurdle he already found a way to overcome. But this guy’s problem is he doesn’t like his legal name and doesn’t want to change it. _It is completely within his power now to gain an acceptable ID using his legal name._ Nothing prevents it, other than the trauma he would experience by having a form of ID in his wallet with an objectionable name. His legal name is what it is; not having an ID doesn’t change that fact. Refusing to get an ID with that name doesn’t make his legal name what he wants it to be. But apparently this is not a trivial burden, because oppression. And then your tirade that seems to have missed the point entirely. If you’re trying to prove Bricker’s bona fides with regard to his esteemed status as oppressor of the poor, this was a piss-poor example to use as support. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7316 "2014-10-31T10:53:09Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Jesus, what a straw man. Bricker called out the bullshit in the lamentations over this “clear example” of voter suppression associated with a voter ID law. Turns out the outrage was spin. Texas law, unrelated to the voter ID law, has always been that if you want to change your name, you have to follow the legal process. You can’t just declare it so. > > So, we have a guy who spent the $23 already. However onerous you assess that burden, it’s a hurdle he already found a way to overcome. But this guy’s problem is he doesn’t like his legal name and doesn’t want to change it. _It is completely within his power now to gain an acceptable ID using his legal name._ Nothing prevents it, other than the trauma he would experience by having a form of ID in his wallet with an objectionable name. His legal name is what it is; not having an ID doesn’t change that fact. Refusing to get an ID with that name doesn’t make his legal name what he wants it to be. > > But apparently this is not a trivial burden, because oppression. > > And then your tirade that seems to have missed the point entirely. If you’re trying to prove Bricker’s bona fides with regard to his esteemed status as oppressor of the poor, this was a piss-poor example to use as support. He’s just embarrassed that once again a great poster child for someone denied an ID turns out to be bullshit, as such stories virtually always do. Liberals are great at discussing the tens of thousands who will supposedly be disenfranchised, but struggle mightily with actual concrete examples. Poor guy. He can’t get an ID in his legal name, because he doesn’t like his legal name. Oh the horror. ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7317 "2014-10-31T11:55:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > He’s just embarrassed that once again a great poster child for someone denied an ID turns out to be bullshit, as such stories virtually always do. Liberals are great at discussing the tens of thousands who will supposedly be disenfranchised, but struggle mightily with actual concrete examples. > > Poor guy. He can’t get an ID in his legal name, because he doesn’t like his legal name. Oh the horror. You never answered my question, so I’ll ask you again: > [@](#): > > I don’t know if your family name carries any emotional value to you, but would you readily change it to something arbitrary in order to vote? And would you be happy about it? I love voting and have done it my entire adult life, but I’m not sure I would. Keep in mind (more for folks like **Stratocaster** than you, I guess): he didn’t “change his name.” He was using the name his parents had been using for him for 45 years. He thought that _was_ his name. Then he discovers at 45 that his birth certificate had a different name on it. That, to me, is different than him having consciously decided to change his name but not wanted to deal with the consequences thereof. And, again, he made this discovery _after_ going through a lot of (should have been) unnecessary bullshit (and paying the equivalent of hundreds of dollars to someone like you or me) because the perfectly reasonable methods he used to vote before had been invalidated, by politicians whose very goal was to disenfranchise him. This is a man who obviously _wants_ to vote. But he’s being made to need to want it a lot more than other people, to exercise the same privilege. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7318 "2014-10-31T14:03:25Z")
> [@Parthol](#): > > You never answered my question, so I’ll ask you again: > > Keep in mind (more for folks like **Stratocaster** than you, I guess): he didn’t “change his name.” He was using the name his parents had been using for him for 45 years. He thought that _was_ his name. Then he discovers at 45 that his birth certificate had a different name on it. That, to me, is different than him having consciously decided to change his name but not wanted to deal with the consequences thereof. > > And, again, he made this discovery _after_ going through a lot of (should have been) unnecessary bullshit (and paying the equivalent of hundreds of dollars to someone like you or me) because the perfectly reasonable methods he used to vote before had been invalidated, by politicians whose very goal was to disenfranchise him. This is a man who obviously _wants_ to vote. But he’s being made to need to want it a lot more than other people, to exercise the same privilege. Ho common an occurrence do you think this is? Do you think that every law should take into account every possible oddity? Even those unforeseen/unforeseeable? I’m not getting what you’re actually advocating for. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7319 "2014-10-31T14:07:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > ,Liberals are great at discussing the tens of thousands who will supposedly be disenfranchised, but struggle mightily with actual concrete examples… Ah, what the heck, one more time! Not about “disenfranchisement”. About harassing, impeding, make more difficult. As for concrete examples, where’s the dread peril of voter fraud? Keeping in mind, few if any of us have your experience of being a direct eyewitness to CASA volunteer treachery and skulduggery… (Still amazed you got away with that bullshit…) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7320 "2014-10-31T14:08:30Z")
> [@Parthol](#): > > Keep in mind (more for folks like **Stratocaster** than you, I guess): he didn’t “change his name.” He was using the name his parents had been using for him for 45 years. He thought that _was_ his name. Then he discovers at 45 that his birth certificate had a different name on it. That, to me, is different than him having consciously decided to change his name but not wanted to deal with the consequences thereof. I’ll answer your question. If I liked the name I thought was my legal name (but is not), and did not want to go to the trouble of changing it, I’d take the ID in my current legal name. Then I’d go about my business exactly as I had for the last 45 years, when I wandered about with a different legal name than the one I’d prefer I had. With one exception: I’d try not to collapse in anguished tears every 4 years when I had to flash the ID to vote, the one with the objectionable name. > [@](#): > > And, again, he made this discovery _after_ going through a lot of (should have been) unnecessary bullshit (and paying the equivalent of hundreds of dollars to someone like you or me) because the perfectly reasonable methods he used to vote before had been invalidated, by politicians whose very goal was to disenfranchise him. This is a man who obviously _wants_ to vote. But he’s being made to need to want it a lot more than other people, to exercise the same privilege. And yet, he somehow managed to overcome this horrible obstacle. That’s the point. If this is an example of how voter ID will suppress the vote, it’s a fail. If he doesn’t vote it’s because he objects to Texas’s laws regarding one’s legal name. He wants his legal name to be something it’s not. That condition existed prior to the voter ID law, and it exists now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=365) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=367)