# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/721 "2012-06-28T14:05:06Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > And that’s all it takes to make it so that voter ID laws have a net negative effect. No matter what we do, it will have a net negative effect on someone. We will end up with both some number of legitimate voters who can’t get IDs and some number of voters whose votes have been nullified by an illegal vote. Furthermore, you haven’t made a case that illegal voting is not and isn’t likely ever to be a cause for genuine concern. The problem is that you are utterly unconcerned about votes that get nullified and insist on pretending that it somehow isn’t a real issue. Mostly your arguments consist of shaking your head with your mouth hanging open and going, “Uh _uh_!” You have also failed to make a case that lack of photo ID is a significant deterrent to legitimate voters. [Hans A. von Topasky, on the other hand, makes an excellent case that illegal voting is likely to be a serious danger.](http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691) Here’s one example that he gives: > [@](#): > > The evidence is indisputable that aliens, both legal and illegal, are registering and voting in federal, state, and local elections. Following a mayor’s race in Compton, California, for example, aliens testified under oath in court that they voted in the election. In that case, a candidate who was elected to the city council was permanently disqualified from holding public office in California for soliciting non-citizens to register and vote. The fact that non-citizens registered and voted in the election would never have been discovered except for the fact that it was a very close election and the incumbent mayor, who lost by less than 300 votes, contested it. And I bet that asshole who tried to steal an election with illegal voters was a Democrat. Topasky also lists some actions which should be the very minimum taken to prevent illegal voting: > [@](#): > > – All states should require anyone who registers to vote to provide proof of U.S. citizenship. This requirement should be identical to the federal requirement of proof for employment. > > – ICE and CIS should comply with federal law and confirm the citizenship status of registered voters when they receive requests for such information from state and local election officials. > > – The database, known as E-Verify, that is being used by U.S. employers to check the citizenship status of prospective employees should be made available to election officials and administrators of the statewide registration databases required by HAVA so that election officials can run database comparisons to identify registered voters who are not citizens … > > – The DOJ should file enforcement actions against all states that allow an individual to register to vote when he or she has not answered the citizenship question on the voter registration form required by HAVA. > > – Local district attorneys must be made to realize that registration and voting by non-citizens are offenses against the basic principles of our democratic system and that such cases must be prosecuted … > > – The DOJ should conduct a survey of all state DMVs to determine which ones have rules and procedures in place that prevent non-citizens who apply for driver’s licenses from registering to vote and then file enforcement actions against any state that refuses to comply with this requirement. > > –A voter registration card should not be a valid identifying document to obtain a driver’s license or employment. As I’m one of those whose vote is likely to get neutralized by some goddam border jumper, I advocate photo ID in addition to all of these measures. Face it. Those opposed to photo ID don’t give a damn about disenfranchised minorities. They’re just worried that a photo ID requirement might get in the way when they’re trying steal elections. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/722 "2012-06-28T14:19:20Z")
Just get an ID. Every time I read the sob stories of folks traipsing around the US without an ID I’m left with the impression that the subject is a fucking useless moron. If it’s difficult for you to get an ID, it’s a hell of your own making and it’s time to reexamine your life you stupid fuck. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/723 "2012-06-28T14:23:15Z")
> [@MrDurden](#): > > AHAHAHAHA! > > Sure, with unlimited time and a lot of money, any citizen can get an ID. If you don’t have unlimited time AND/OR are short of money. You cannot. It’s that simple. Ptooey. There were whole decades when I was either working two jobs or working full time and going to school, and I still managed to have a birth certificate and a passport. Nor do I recall that obtaining either was some huge hassle and expense. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/724 "2012-06-28T14:51:21Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Ptooey. There were whole decades when I was either working two jobs or working full time and going to school, and I still managed to have a birth certificate and a passport. Nor do I recall that obtaining either was some huge hassle and expense. Well, if it happened in your case, it certainly can never be different for anyone else. This is the primary defect in conservative thinking, by the way. “I got a job, so everyone else who can’t find one is lazy.” Thank you for providing an example of the mental limitations that drive your partisan zeal. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/725 "2012-06-28T15:13:59Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > Just get an ID. Every time I read the sob stories of folks traipsing around the US without an ID I’m left with the impression that the subject is a fucking useless moron. > > If it’s difficult for you to get an ID, it’s a hell of your own making and it’s time to reexamine your life you stupid fuck. Yes, anyone who would find it difficult to get the requisite photo ID is in such a position due to the decisions they’ve made about their life. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/726 "2012-06-28T15:19:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Well, if it happened in your case, it certainly can never be different for anyone else. > > This is the primary defect in conservative thinking, by the way. “I got a job, so everyone else who can’t find one is lazy.” > > Thank you for providing an example of the mental limitations that drive your partisan zeal. No matter what your race, social class etc., if you haven’t got sufficient documentation to prove that you are who you say you are by the time you’re an adult, you are a total fuck-up, and there’s not much the rest of us can do to help. Certainly the rest of us shouldn’t be forbidden to establish entirely reasonalbe ID requirements for voting just because some dope-addled tweaker or some welfare broodmare with an IQ of 80 can’t figure out how to get a photo ID. But at least you’re not squawking like a parrot about racism. I guess that’s something. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/727 "2012-06-28T15:28:26Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > No matter what your race, social class etc., if you haven’t got sufficient documentation to prove that you are who you say you are by the time you’re an adult, you are a total fuck-up, and there’s not much the rest of us can do to help. Certainly the rest of us shouldn’t be forbidden to establish entirely reasonalbe ID requirements for voting just because some dope-addled tweaker or some welfare broodmare with an IQ of 80 can’t figure out how to get a photo ID. > > But at least you’re not squawking like a parrot about racism. I guess that’s something. Where in the US can someone register to vote without demonstrating who they are? ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/728 "2012-06-28T15:36:52Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I didn’t have a government ID until I was 21 and got a US passport, and I only got that because I needed it to travel. Where would you rank voting? Above or below travel? I’ve had a state ID since I was 12. 2 forms of ID (one with DOB) were required to get it (I did not need to show a birth certificate). ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/729 "2012-06-28T15:58:24Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > Just get an ID. Every time I read the sob stories of folks traipsing around the US without an ID I’m left with the impression that the subject is a fucking useless moron. > > If it’s difficult for you to get an ID, it’s a hell of your own making and it’s time to reexamine your life you stupid fuck. Yes, such hells include being poor, working full-time, not having a car, and living outside of walking distance of the DMV. Which, clearly, are _always_ the person in question’s fault. And because they “made poor choices”, they should be disqualified or discouraged from voting. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > No matter what we do, it will have a net negative effect on someone. Do you know what the term “net negative” means? It means overall worsening of the situation. In the case of elections, this means making the results of the election less representative. This statement of yours is asinine. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, you haven’t made a case that illegal voting is not and isn’t likely ever to be a cause for genuine concern. The problem is that you are utterly unconcerned about votes that get nullified and insist on pretending that it somehow isn’t a real issue. Mostly your arguments consist of shaking your head with your mouth hanging open and going, “Uh _uh_!” Well, I’ve cited the figures from the Brennan Center For Justice, which show an incredibly low voter fraud rate. That’s better than what your side has done, which is cite _fuck-all_ and still claim that voter fraud is an actual issue. > [@](#): > > You have also failed to make a case that lack of photo ID is a significant deterrent to legitimate voters. Bullshit. Post 339. > [@](#): > > [Hans A. von Topasky, on the other hand, makes an excellent case that illegal voting is likely to be a serious danger.](http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691) Here’s one example that he gives: > > And I bet that asshole who tried to steal an election with illegal voters was a Democrat. Oh look, another asshole brings up the California case. The _only_ case, I might add. No, seriously, when it comes to voter fraud, > [@](#): > > As I’m one of those whose vote is likely to get neutralized by some goddam border jumper, I advocate photo ID in addition to all of these measures. You know what I would really appreciate? Evidence that illegal immigrants voting happens on a wide scale. As I pointed out in post 339, you’d need something like 1/25,000 people who don’t currently have photo ID to be > [@](#): > > Face it. Those opposed to photo ID don’t give a damn about disenfranchised minorities. They’re just worried that a photo ID requirement might get in the way when they’re trying steal elections. Seeing as you’re accusing _me_ of this… No. You’re wrong. I care about the integrity of the electoral system, and I feel that voter ID laws are _incredibly_ harmful. Well, no, I _know_, based on the figures offered by reliable sources, that voter ID laws are a net loss for the reliability of the outcome of elections on virtually every level in the USA. I still don’t get why every republican I’ve faced in this thread is so bad at math. > [@Bricker](#): > > Why should I care what “you find?” > > I care what the legislatures of the states find. I care what the courts find. > > You and your band of looney leftists? Not remotely. Psst. Hey Bricker. Your nutbag is showing. > [@](#): > > Whew. OK. It _IS_ necessary. Because what’s necessary is not your decision to make. Yes, apparently it’s yours. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/730 "2012-06-28T16:09:24Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I’ve had a state ID since I was 12. 2 forms of ID (one with DOB) were required to get it (I did not need to show a birth certificate). As my wife would put it…“What do you want, a biscuit?” ETA – or, she’d say, “Two points for you!” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/731 "2012-06-28T16:12:45Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yes, apparently it’s yours. :rolleyes: Not mine either. Although the Good Lord knows we’d all be better off if it were. But the decision belongs to the legislatures of the states. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/732 "2012-06-28T16:42:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not mine either. Although the Good Lord knows we’d all be better off if it were. > > But the decision belongs to the legislatures of the states. Yes, the decision of “who can vote” belongs to the legislatures of the states. You thick fuck. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/733 "2012-06-28T16:50:32Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I think Pennsylvania required the huge sum of $10 to get a birth certificate. > [@Chopper9760](#): > > If it’s difficult for you to get an ID, it’s a hell of your own making and it’s time to reexamine your life you stupid fuck. Right. If it’s the fault of stupid poor fucks if they can’t deal with these regulations, then why not institute a simple $10 charge at the door? > [@Zell](#): > > It was Democratic President Harry Truman who pushed the Red Army out of Iran, who came to the aid of Greece when Communists threatened to overthrow it, who stared down the Soviet blockade of West Berlin by flying in supplies and saving the city. Why not ask a Greek person what they thought about the freedom of Georgios Papadopoulos over the tyranny of worker owned factories? Or an Iranian the freedom under Pahlavi as compared to the tyranny of Mosaddegh? > [@Bricker](#): > > Lobohan you fucking tool, it’s not a poll tax. Sincerely, Justice Stevens. > [@Jesus](#): > > And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/734 "2012-06-28T16:56:37Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > > [@Jesus](#): > > > > And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Jesus never met Lobohan. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/735 "2012-06-28T17:04:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Jesus never met Lobohan. And when Jesus meets you, he’ll throw you into a lake of fire forever. Because you’re evil. Actually, I’m kidding, Jesus no longer exists. He’s been wormshit for two thousand years. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/736 "2012-06-28T17:18:23Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > And when Jesus meets you, he’ll throw you into a lake of fire forever. Because you’re evil. > > Actually, I’m kidding, Jesus no longer exists. He’s been wormshit for two thousand years. One of us is in for a shocker. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/737 "2012-06-28T17:32:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > One of us is in for a shocker. Well, it’s not you. Because you’ll die, enter oblivion and never know that you wasted your life on utter horseshit. Also, your tithes paid for the feeding and housing of child-rapists. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/738 "2012-06-28T17:33:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > One of us is in for a shocker. **Bricker** , this is Jesus’ brother. I have some bad news. You see, there was this skydiving accident… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/739 "2012-06-28T18:04:32Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Well, it’s not you. Because you’ll die, enter oblivion and never know that you wasted your life on utter horseshit. > > Also, your tithes paid for the feeding and housing of child-rapists. So do your taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/740 "2012-06-28T18:06:23Z")
Whether we should ask for ID at the polls or not, it’s ridiculous to be an adult in the US and not have an ID. It’s pathetic. I’ve yet to read a compelling set of circumstances. I’m asked for ID on almost a daily basis and in the course of my life I’ve been asked to produce my birth certificate, my SScard, and sometimes two forms of picture ID. I’m harshly judging these strangers without ID, what the fuck have they been up to their whole lives? Can you conduct yourself without ID in the US? Apparently you can, but IMO, that person is lazy or a moron or weirdly removed from society. You know why it gets harder to get an ID the older you get? Because it’s weird to reach adulthood without getting an ID and therefore completely reasonable for officials to be suspicious of identity theft. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=38)