# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 381
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7601 "2014-11-09T04:55:48Z")
Why the hell do you people keep feeding this sniveling little troll? Hes’ _still_ keeping this thread all about him. Stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7602 "2014-11-09T05:05:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Here, I can call **Hentor** an asshole, and its OK, because he is an asshole! Sure, Bricker tells you to police your ilk, and you say “How high?” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7603 "2014-11-09T05:06:24Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Why the hell do you people keep feeding this sniveling little troll? Hes’ _still_ keeping this thread all about him. Stop it. Agreed. He’s a pathetic little man who doesn’t deserve the attention. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7604 "2014-11-09T05:19:29Z")
The claim that folks give a pass to poor arguments that align with their position is pretty much true - at least for some of the folks here who have said as much. If you conceded this rather than deny it then it wouldn’t have to be brought up so much. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7605 "2014-11-09T07:00:25Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The claim that folks give a pass to poor arguments that align with their position is pretty much true - at least for some of the folks here who have said as much. If you conceded this rather than deny it then it wouldn’t have to be brought up so much. There’s no reason to concede what isn’t true. Look how many people challenged me on my assertion that voter suppression tactics had a significant influence on the election results. I maintain I’m right, but nobody _ignored_ my argument from my side of the aisle. Stop playing into his games. He’s a troll and a whiny-ass childish creep. _He’s_ the one whose posts should just be ignored. **And stop making this thread about _him._** Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7606 "2014-11-09T14:52:21Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > There’s no reason to concede what isn’t true. Look how many people challenged me on my assertion that voter suppression tactics had a significant influence on the election results. I maintain I’m right, but nobody _ignored_ my argument from my side of the aisle. > > Stop playing into his games. He’s a troll and a whiny-ass childish creep. _He’s_ the one whose posts should just be ignored. > > **And stop making this thread about _him._** Jesus. For markedly different values of the word “challenged.” I’ve rarely seen a more gentle or careful “challenge,” to such a piss-poor argument. And look where it went. It’s a significant claim against the use of Voter ID: that its presence swung control of the Senate. And you made it, a couple of people politely said they didn’t agree, and now it’s dropped. Because, in the weird hive mind of liberalism, you’ve been given a signal that this one won’t fly, and you’re welcome to maintain you’re right…but not push it too hard, and everything remains friendly. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7607 "2014-11-09T15:40:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > (1) why do you care? If only one side of an argument is asked to supply evidence, then surely you can see that the result is going to be where the side that is unfettered is permitted much more latitude. I don’t think either side of the argument has produced evidence or proof. Which is why I support the liberal side, at least until such evidence is forthcoming. When there’s an action that has an unknown set of side effects, but one of them is plausibly to suppress voter turnout, I think that it is unethical to take that action without further review or study. (And, circumstantially, the fact that among politicians and political scientists who presumably are actual experts in this field, many people clearly think it WILL have a suppressing effect, because that’s why the R’s did it in the first place and why the D’s oppose it.) > [@](#): > > (2) My evidence is inductive. I hear many claims about the aggregate numbers of supposedly disenfranchised voters, but every effort to highlight a particular case ends up showcasing examples like the guy who’s butthurt because he’s not allowed to vote using a name other than his legal name. That (along with some addenda about how presumably the liberal press would be all over actual examples of making-voting-impossible if any existed, so the fact that they haven’t reported any suggests none exist) would be at least a logical argument if not a compelling one, aside from two very important things: (1) The liberal argument doesn’t depend on voting being made IMPOSSIBLE (2) There’s no guarantee that anyone who tries to get a voter ID and fails will always be someone who contacts the media and gets their story publicized > [@](#): > > What about them? Do I care? No. Those are not unreasonable efforts. I don’t call that “unable.” So someone tries to get a voter ID. They say “you have to go to office B and get a birth certifiacte”. At office B they say “you have to go to office C to get the right form”. At office C they say “you have to go to office D” etc. At every point along this chain there is reason to believe that it will eventually be possible to get a voter ID. Is there no amount of such bureaucracy that you would view as an impermissible obstacle to voting? The difference between that and your voodoo analogy (which I might point out I personally don’t agree with) is that in your voodoo analogy, the only difficulty is a belief that you personally ridicule. In the real world, the difficulty is (or at least can be in many cases) something which inarguably takes time and effort (and often money). What if we just started reducing polling places in Republican areas, to make the trip to the polling place further and further and further away? At no point does it ever get IMPOSSIBLE to get to the polling place, but making it harder and harder is going to by human nature itself have an effect on turnout. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7608 "2014-11-09T17:11:22Z")
On the one hand, we have reliable testimony from the Board’s Foremost Authority that, yes, indeed, “some” Republicans had malign motives for their actions. But we must hold the rest of them to be innocent, because all they did was vote for it But if **Shayna, Queen of the Jungle**. exaggerates a point and gets feedback and criticism, that is insufficient, hypocritical, partisan. We of the Moonbat Mafia must sternly denounce, renounce, and condemn, or we fail to measure up to the rigorous standards that the Counselor pretends to hold. Boy, we sure are lucky he never got around to compiling that list of all the Republicans who criticized and denounced the partisan skulduggery of their fellow Republicans! Because then he would have a valid and verifiable point, rather than another transparent exercise in flat-footed hypocrisy. Or perhaps not hypocrisy, perhaps… Cognitive Dissonance, the Number One Threat to the Republic! Back on top, number one, since the Republicans saved us from the Obambola Virus! When a Mother’s March Against Cognitive Dissonance volunteer comes to your door, give! And give generously, that poor little **Bricker** may, one day, be able to think again! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7609 "2014-11-09T17:17:14Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > What if we just started reducing polling places in Republican areas, to make the trip to the polling place further and further and further away? At no point does it ever get IMPOSSIBLE to get to the polling place, but making it harder and harder is going to by human nature itself have an effect on turnout. At some point, such efforts would be impermissible. But not “at every point.” The people that get to decide what the impermissible point is have spoken. They have made that decision. The fact that you don’t agree, and would draw the line in a different place, is of no real interest to the problem. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7610 "2014-11-09T17:21:35Z")
This is still going on? Making a lot of progress, are we? You guys are nuts. Anyone who’s posted to this thread (more times than I have) should be _really_ embarrassed. ETA: More seriously, what’s the appeal of continuing? Is it the fear of backing down and letting the monsters on the other side go unchallenged? Or is just a circle-jerk of recreational animosity? I’m pretty sure it’s actually the latter, though the former isn’t exactly flattering either. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7611 "2014-11-09T17:36:08Z")
Thanks for clearing that up, explaining for us your principled stand of non-participation. Time and again, we have asked “Where is **VarlosZ** on this, how can we proceed without that invaluable input?” Now, at least,we know why. Dully noted. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7612 "2014-11-09T18:00:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Thanks for clearing that up, explaining for us your principled stand of non-participation. Time and again, we have asked “Where is **VarlosZ** on this, how can we proceed without that invaluable input?” > > Now, at least,we know why. Dully noted. In case you were wondering: 9. The criterion value for _V_, the acceptable number of times that one could post in this thread is 9. Nobody knows why. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7613 "2014-11-09T18:22:06Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > \*\*There’s no reason to concede what isn’t true. \*\*Look how many people challenged me on my assertion that voter suppression tactics had a significant influence on the election results. I maintain I’m right, but nobody _ignored_ my argument from my side of the aisle. > > Stop playing into his games. He’s a troll and a whiny-ass childish creep. _He’s_ the one whose posts should just be ignored. > > **And stop making this thread about _him._** Jesus. (my bold) In case you missed it when skipping posts from people who agree with you: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But this shouldn’t be a surprise at all, to anyone. We’re human, and a group that’s mostly liberal is going to be more likely to criticize errors and poor arguments from conservative posters than from fellow liberal posters. So what? Why would this be notable? Why do you and others complain about it, when it’s obvious this is the case for any group that leans in one ideological direction or the other? Do you honestly expect people to pay as much attention to bad arguments from those they agree with as they do to those with whom they disagree? This is just one poster, but it’s taken as a given that this is true. Do you agree with the sentiment of this post? This is what is being denied by others including yourself. I think this is the most reasonable take on it: > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > But attention and posting are limited resources (for most people!). We should give attention to the smart arguments, not the stupid arguments. > > Too often the temptation is to respond to the weakest arguments against one’s position. I think that’s a MUCH stronger temptation than the temptation to ignore weak arguments that happen to support your side. If anything, people on this board should spend less time addressing stupid posts. And while I think it’s reasonable to spend time on what you are interested in, it would be false to deny that the posting economy doesn’t exist. There is no need or point to try and change this, but a denial of its existence merits comment. Thus my point: > [@Bone](#): > > The claim that folks give a pass to poor arguments that align with their position is pretty much true - at least for some of the folks here who have said as much. If you conceded this rather than deny it then it wouldn’t have to be brought up so much. What I find amusing is this: > [@Shayna](#): > > **And stop making this thread about _him._** Jesus. I hope this is meant to be ironic. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7614 "2014-11-09T18:54:28Z")
Can one thread-shit in the Pit? It’s an interesting question. But people may want to stop and consider what they’re actually getting out of this thread. And then they should go back and ask again, because the first answer is almost certainly going to be self-delusion. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > In case you were wondering: 9. The criterion value for _V_, the acceptable number of times that one could post in this thread is 9. > > Nobody knows why. Obviously I was being facetious with the whole “more times than I have” bit. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7615 "2014-11-09T19:06:19Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > But people may want to stop and consider what they’re actually getting out of this thread. Okay, what are you getting out of posting in this thread? You may feel superior in questioning others about why they are posting to a message board, but everyone else can see that you’re just a douchebag posting to a message board who lacks any sort of capacity for self-awareness. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7616 "2014-11-09T19:17:17Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Okay, what are you getting out of posting in this thread? > > **You may feel superior in questioning others about why they are posting to a message board** , but everyone else can see that you’re just a douchebag posting to a message board who lacks any sort of capacity for self-awareness. No, I’m sure that’s the greater part of it: it makes me feel superior. Or I feel superior already, and I just want other people to know it. Either way. Of course, the reason I feel superior in the first place is because this remains really stupid behavior and I’m (mostly) not involved. And, also, I legitimately believe that there’s a spillover effect to the rest of the board. Enmity begets enmity. This thread is like a turd on the sidewalk, and some people are dragging shit-stains around on the bottom of their shoes. I expect this is a minority opinion. I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7617 "2014-11-09T19:51:03Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > This is still going on? Making a lot of progress, are we? > > You guys are nuts. Anyone who’s posted to this thread (more times than I have) should be _really_ embarrassed. > > ETA: More seriously, what’s the appeal of continuing? Is it the fear of backing down and letting the monsters on the other side go unchallenged? Or is just a circle-jerk of recreational animosity? I’m pretty sure it’s actually the latter, though the former isn’t exactly flattering either. Because the Idiots Brigade posts their crap, and the thinking, responsible representatives of the liberal viewpoint have made clear they have no real interest in or responsibility to debunk the IB. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7618 "2014-11-09T21:16:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because the Idiots Brigade posts their crap, and the thinking, responsible representatives of the liberal viewpoint have made clear they have no real interest in or responsibility to debunk the IB. Seeing as you’ve failed utterly to offer an argument that sums up to more than a rancid fart in a thunderstorm, I wouldn’t be so high and mighty. You’ve even lied outright about my positions in order to deflect from your utter lack of success in advocating yours. You continue with your deflections with your nonsense pity-party, the liberals don’t self police!!!1 Even if that were true, what does it mean? It doesn’t make your shitty arguments somehow sound. It doesn’t retroactively destroy the arguments that smack yours to the ground and force it to eat dirt. As an aside, you hate poor people because in your arrogance you think you’re better than them. Yet in this thread you mewl like a weak little pussy about how the deck is stacked against you. I find that rich. You laugh at poor people in generational poverty in our culture of low social mobility and then cry like a bitch when you feel the deck is stacked against _you_. Funny and sad. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7619 "2014-11-09T21:26:01Z")
… aaand, we’re back. Have fun, everyone. I know you won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7620 "2014-11-09T21:54:57Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > … aaand, we’re back. > > Have fun, everyone. I know you won’t. At least the acceptable number of posts has been raised to 12. And now everyone knows how super awesome you are! Bonus. We all have a new hero! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=380) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=382)