# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 385
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7681 "2014-11-13T22:12:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > As an incidental note, when Clothahump says, twice: > > _You’re dumber than my toenail fungus_. > > …the information I glean is… > > _Clothahump has toenail fungus_. > > …and from there is a short hop to… > > _Clothahump has poor personal hygiene_. > For what it’s worth, of course. We need to stop the culture of fungus-shaming on this board! ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7682 "2014-11-14T04:06:06Z")
Back on topic, while Republicans fight tooth and nail to enforce voter ID laws that will prevent perhaps a half-dozen false votes per election cycle, [real fraud denies thousands of people the opportunity to vote](http://atlantadailyworld.com/2014/11/12/malicious-election-day-robocalls-prompt-investigation-and-headache-for-illinois-gop/) in Chicago. True, the scam robocalls are already illegal (as is in-person voter fraud), and true, the perpetrators will likely end up in jail (as would anyone committing in-person voter fraud). But unlike in-person voter fraud, these robocalls 1) _actually happened_, 2) were organized by activists _affiliated with a major political party_, and 3) allowed a small group of people to steal _orders of magnitude_ more votes than they conceivably could have with a dedicated in-person scam. In a sense, this is an acid test for the legitimacy of Republican claims. These indefensible actions damage the integrity of elections in exactly the way that Republicans claim cannot be allowed. Will they shift their efforts to preventing this type of devastating fraud, crafting legislation to make it harder for a few rogue agents to disrupt and entire election? Or will they reveal their true colors by continuing to focus on the poor and minority votes who vote for the opposition, while praying that the Chicago incident fades from the public memory as quickly as possible? Hint: this is a stupid question and the second answer is obviously correct. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7683 "2014-11-14T06:42:10Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > We need to stop the culture of fungus-shaming on this board! He jumps, he hooks!.._he spores_!!! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7684 "2014-11-14T06:45:30Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Back on topic, while Republicans fight tooth and nail to enforce voter ID laws that will prevent perhaps a half-dozen false votes per election cycle…Hint: this is a stupid question and the second answer is obviously correct. Well, sure, maybe, but all you got is secondary sources. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7685 "2014-11-14T08:12:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He jumps, he hooks!.._he spores_!!! When they made you, they broke the mould. \<– Hey Bricker, I used the British spelling, Pip Pip, Tallyho ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7686 "2014-11-14T13:41:19Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Back on topic But sometimes brief tangents (in this case to discussions of fungus) can be useful. I lichen it to taking a coffee break but if you want it to stop, just ascus. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7687 "2014-11-14T16:46:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > When they made you, they broke the mould. “When I was born, they threw away the mold. But it grew back.” - Emo Phillips ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7688 "2014-11-14T17:37:34Z")
Gotta go Alinsky on their asses. Train up our volunteers, learn all the rules, all the "i"s to be dotted, "t"s to be crossed for excruciatingly correct voter registration. Find the way to get the needed documents, the necessary photography, into the hands of the currently unregistered. Remember: they didn’t kill ACORN for moral depravity or corruption. They killed ACORN because it was working, they figured that out before we did. A thousand voters here, a thousand there, drops in the bucket. But enough drops, and the bucket begins to fill. There will be resistance, on that you can bet. Last thing in the world the Forces of Darkness want is more voters on the rolls, they’ve already got most all they are going to. Honest conservatives exist. Remember the Florida election officials who told the Governor of Florida to stuff his voter roll purge? The honest conservative puts democracy ahead of party, and they are not yet quite extinct. They will be our allies, however reluctantly. I’m a radical progressive, lost more political battles than I’ve had hot meals. Pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, suit up and get back in the game. We got two years. Use them. They own the past, nothing we can do about that. But their voters get old and die, ours are coming of age. They will use every trick in the book, so we have to read the book. But its still one navel, one vote, and it ain’t over till the fat lady is dead. They can hinder, they can delay, but they can’t stop us if we don’t let them. Ah, democracy, gotta love it! No, really, we gotta. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7689 "2014-11-14T18:17:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Honest conservatives exist. Remember the Florida election officials who told the Governor of Florida to stuff his voter roll purge? I don’t, actually. I’d love to know about them, though. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7690 "2014-11-14T21:02:01Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > In a sense, this is an acid test for the legitimacy of Republican claims. These indefensible actions damage the integrity of elections in exactly the way that Republicans claim cannot be allowed. Will they shift their efforts to preventing this type of devastating fraud, crafting legislation to make it harder for a few rogue agents to disrupt and entire election? Or will they reveal their true colors by continuing to focus on the poor and minority votes who vote for the opposition, while praying that the Chicago incident fades from the public memory as quickly as possible? I’m finding it hard to get too outraged here, if you’re saying that it’s already illegal and the perpetrators will already face jail time. Isn’t that a case of the system working? Is there a systemic problem in American elections in which people knowingly commit clearly illegal actions, and then are caught and convicted and server their time, but hope that in the meantime they threw the election toward their favored party? ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7691 "2014-11-14T23:41:51Z")
In person voter fraud is **also** already illegal and perpetrators face jail time. The voter id issue is, allegedly, about preventing the harm from the illegal action by making it harder for fraudsters and their chosen politicians to benefit, whether they are eventually imprisoned or not. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7692 "2014-11-14T23:49:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I don’t, actually. I’d love to know about them, though. [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/06/08/496677/30-elected-florida-republicans-stop-rick-scotts-voter-purge/](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/06/08/496677/30-elected-florida-republicans-stop-rick-scotts-voter-purge/) One of many, courtesy of our friends at ThinkProgress. Money quote: > [@](#): > > …But Scott’s battle with the Department of Justice may end up being more symbolic than substantive. Why? All of Florida’s county election supervisors, who are ultimately responsible for maintaining the voter rolls, refuse the execute the purge. Florida’s 67 local election supervisors include 30 Republicans… Democracy, gotta love it! No, really, we gotta. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7693 "2014-11-15T01:45:51Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Back on topic, while Republicans fight tooth and nail to enforce voter ID laws that will prevent perhaps a half-dozen false votes per election cycle, [real fraud denies thousands of people the opportunity to vote](http://atlantadailyworld.com/2014/11/12/malicious-election-day-robocalls-prompt-investigation-and-headache-for-illinois-gop/) in Chicago. True, the scam robocalls are already illegal (as is in-person voter fraud), and true, the perpetrators will likely end up in jail (as would anyone committing in-person voter fraud). But unlike in-person voter fraud, these robocalls 1) _actually happened_, 2) were organized by activists _affiliated with a major political party_, and 3) allowed a small group of people to steal _orders of magnitude_ more votes than they conceivably could have with a dedicated in-person scam. > > In a sense, this is an acid test for the legitimacy of Republican claims. These indefensible actions damage the integrity of elections in exactly the way that Republicans claim cannot be allowed. Will they shift their efforts to preventing this type of devastating fraud, crafting legislation to make it harder for a few rogue agents to disrupt and entire election? Or will they reveal their true colors by continuing to focus on the poor and minority votes who vote for the opposition, while praying that the Chicago incident fades from the public memory as quickly as possible? > > Hint: this is a stupid question and the second answer is obviously correct. “Exactly the way?” What thread have you been reading? You think this is exactly the way, huh? I don’t defend the tactic, of course, but why would some idiot follow a voice on a phone? That’s kinda like believing a voodoo curse will fall upon you. It’s NOT, in other words, “exactly like” the process I have been describing here. Did you know that? Was it a deliberate lie? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7694 "2014-11-15T01:57:57Z")
I see recordings of the some of the calls are available. I’ll give them a listen. If they claim official authority, that already puts them in a different category than the thoroughly discredited “voodoo curse” hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7695 "2014-11-15T02:11:10Z")
Well, I listened to four of the robocalls and I cheerfully admit my unfamiliarity with what election judges are supposed to do is hampering my ability to figure out what effect these calls were supposed to have. Apparently there _was_ an effect of some kind, leading to “long lines at polling places” in what I assume was mostly in Cook County which is what I assume was assumed to lean Democrat. There isn’t enough detail so far (or at least details I can confidently grasp) for me to venture any definite statements. So beyond a general observation that being deliberately misleading about the election process while claiming or implying that one has some kind of authority over the election process is scummy and should be illegal, I’ll wait before commenting on this specific alleged set of incidents. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7696 "2014-11-15T03:33:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Exactly the way?” So you nitpick a three-word rhetorical device, rather then address any of substantive part of my argument. Been down this road before, **Bricker**. Not doing it again. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7697 "2014-11-15T04:12:56Z")
Just admit it was a deliberate lie, Reyemile, and I’m sure Bricker will be glad to extend you maximum respect and courtesy with a willingness to thoughtfully and honestly consider all the points you raise. [sub]I slay me[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7698 "2014-11-15T16:08:05Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > So you nitpick a three-word rhetorical device, rather then address any of substantive part of my argument. > > Been down this road before, **Bricker**. Not doing it again. Stop lying, then. Oh, excuse me. Stop using a “rhetorical device,” like that, liar. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7699 "2014-11-15T19:18:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Stop lying, then. > > Oh, excuse me. Stop using a “rhetorical device,” like that, liar. So the options are “lawyer-approved robot language” or “lying liar,” with no middle ground? You must hate poetry then. I’m not normally one to go around listing formal fallacies, but this is a steaming, stinking pile of excluded middle if I’ve ever seen one. I will admit that the rhetorical expression “exactly the way” was _not as carefully considered as my premises or conclusion_ and that it _may have been hyperbolic_. Now address my fucking point or admit you’ve got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7700 "2014-11-15T19:42:08Z")
Say “please”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=384) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=386)