# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 389
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7761 "2014-11-20T09:58:09Z")
Greg Palast says the Crosscheck purges were enough to tip key Senate races — [http://www.gregpalast.com/the-secret-lists-that-swiped-the-senate/](http://www.gregpalast.com/the-secret-lists-that-swiped-the-senate/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7762 "2014-11-20T15:11:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Greg Palast says the Crosscheck purges were enough to tip key Senate races — [The Secret Lists that Swiped the Senate - Greg Palast](http://www.gregpalast.com/the-secret-lists-that-swiped-the-senate/) Ha ha ha! You Democrats are so incredibly impotent. Took the Senate, we did, right out from under your noses! And you can’t do a thing about it!!! Woo hoo!!! USA! USA! USA! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7763 "2014-11-20T15:14:25Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Anyone unable to [stand in line for 7 hours](http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20141105/downtown/rahm-calls-seven-hour-lines-for-same-day-voting-unacceptable) to vote. Noting of course that these were unforeseeable delays, too, so the sneering claim that these people should have been less “braindead” and planned around the delay won’t be compelling. From your quote: > [@](#): > > Emanuel emphasized that the issue of “bogus” robocalls to judges, which disrupted voting in polling places citywide, was completely separate, saying, “What happened with the robocalls was intentional.” Are you saying that the people in line for seven hours was the result of the robocalls? Your link says: > [@](#): > > Mayor Rahm Emanuel called it “unacceptable” and said he expected the Chicago Board of Election Commissioners to study what went wrong and fix it before the next election. > > Emanuel and Ald. Ameya Pawar (47th) both visited voters in long lines at Welles Park in Lincoln Square Tuesday night, technically after polls had closed. Pawar brought in pizzas, while Emanuel said Wednesday he told voters, “I want to commend you for your persistence. It should not be this way.” > > According to Emanuel, there were only three voting booths at the facility, and those who got in line at 2:30 p.m. didn’t cast their votes until 9:30 p.m. The last person voted at 3:30 a.m. Wednesday. > > “Three voting booths for 800 people is totally inadequate,” Emanuel said. > > He said the problems were caused by the program being hastily implemented, as it was only passed by the General Assembly in July. Clearly, he added, the election board was caught off guard by the response at all five of its sites for same-day registration and voting. Well, liar? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7764 "2014-11-20T15:19:10Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > You quote fallacies at me, lecturing me for failing to consider more than two possibilities, after _excising the part of my post where I acknowledge more than two possibilities_. And yet, you still have the temerity to call _me_ dishonest. You are, as the previous post demonstrates yet again. You’re a liar, happy to lie to advance your cause. Your “acknowledgment” was a poisoned well. Nothing in my original statement in any way suggested anything OTHER than the brain-dead people being the judges; you simply made up the contrary interpretation, announced it was true, announced you didn’t believe anything to the contrary, advanced “only two” possibilities, and only then as an afterthought “acknowledged,” another one, with yet another caveat that you were certain that it wasn’t so. Filth. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7765 "2014-11-20T15:44:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ha ha ha! > > You Democrats are so incredibly impotent. > > Took the Senate, we did, right out from under your noses! And you can’t do a thing about it!!! > > Woo hoo!!! > > USA! USA! USA! So you’re recognizing the 2014 midterms were affected by what most people with a sense of fair play would call cheating, and celebrating such? ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7766 "2014-11-20T16:01:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Are you saying that the people in line for seven hours was the result of the robocalls? > > Your link says: I stand corrected on that one–the link came from a ThinkProgress article which implied that the delays were caused by the judges, and I wasn’t scrupulous in analyzing the claim. Here’s a better one, [courtesy CBS](http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/11/04/malicious-robocalls-leave-chicago-short-of-election-judges/) (that bastion of progressive liberal bias): > [@](#): > > A judge allowed four polling places will **stay open [past the 7pm close] until 8 p.m. due to the problems**: > > Election officials said some judges quit after receiving the misinformation… > > …City election officials were contacting voters they believe were **not able to cast ballots Tuesday morning due to polling places opening late** … Late starts and late finishes as a direct result of the malicious robocalls. People turned away from polling places that should not have been closed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7767 "2014-11-20T16:13:32Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > I stand corrected on that one–the link came from a ThinkProgress article which implied that the delays were caused by the judges, and I wasn’t scrupulous in analyzing the claim. > > Here’s a better one, [courtesy CBS](http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/11/04/malicious-robocalls-leave-chicago-short-of-election-judges/) (that bastion of progressive liberal bias): > > Late starts and late finishes as a direct result of the malicious robocalls. People turned away from polling places that should not have been closed. Another round of highly selective quoting. > [@](#): > > Neal said the problem should not affect elections. City election officials were contacting voters they believe were not able to cast ballots Tuesday morning due to polling places opening late, and asking if they could come back to cast a ballot later Tuesday. > “ **We’ve sorted it all out. We have redundant systems in place**. We are conducting the election very smoothly now, but this morning it did have a negative impact on us,” he said. And: > [@](#): > > Chicago Election Board spokesman Jim Allen said at least 2,000 judges didn’t not show, and the total could be even higher, perhaps 3,000. The reason: Judges received a bogus robocall over the weekend, falsely informing them they had to report for training, or they would not be able to serve on Election Day. > “This is a new dirty trick,” said Allen, adding that in a typical year about 1,500 judges are absent. So here’s what I don’t see: support for your lie that “…as a direct result of the malicious robocalls,” people were unable to vote. The article acknowledges that even without malicious robocalls, they expect to have 1500 braid-dead volunteers not show up. > [@](#): > > Chicago Board of Election Commissioners spokesman Jim Allen said there were a number of other reasons some judges did not show up Tuesday morning. > “The robocalls definitely didn’t help,” he said. “Either with their job, or their college courses, or a medical emergency in their family; but then we had other judges simply did not show up, without warning.” So I grant you that some of the morons that the Democrats rely upon for election wins did not show up, and for about half of them the reason might have been the robocall. What I haven’t seen is voters “unable” to vote for this reason. I see voters who may have had to wait longer, or come back. When you decide to lie, do you tell yourself that it’s a lie in a good cause, or does that internal dialog just not happen? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7768 "2014-11-20T16:19:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So you’re recognizing the 2014 midterms were affected by what most people with a sense of fair play would call cheating, and celebrating such? No, I absolutely deny it. But I’m amused to point out than even if it were true, it shows stupidity and impotence. If Palast’s paranoid fantasy were true, it means that the GOP took the Senate right out from under your noses, and you can’t do a thing about it. That’s the funniest thing ever. Fucking morons. According to you, the GOP placed into effect “cheating” rules, they were accepted as rules, executed, and you lost. And you think “most people” imagine that to be cheating. No, most people imagine that to be a reasonable program with reasonable results. Where is the groundswell of backlash for this “cheating?” Nowhere: no one of any importance cares. That article may as well have said, “Thank you, sir; may I have another?” In your magic unicorn and pony world, who cares what fluffy rainbow rules you think ought to exist? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7769 "2014-11-20T16:24:07Z")
Well, I’m prepared to tentatively assume that the effect of the robocalls may have been minimal or even insignificant, pending investigation. It’s still a scummy thing to do but, hey, Illinois. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7770 "2014-11-20T16:27:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I’m prepared to tentatively assume that the effect of the robocalls may have been minimal or even insignificant, pending investigation. > > It’s still a scummy thing to do but, hey, Illinois. Aren’t you afraid you’ll get shunned by the other liberals at the next Occupy meeting? ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7771 "2014-11-20T16:30:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Another round of highly selective quoting. Hilarious to accuse me of selective quoting, given your post [7753](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17912556&postcount=7753). Also, “another”? I haven’t quoted from any articles this thread. > [@](#): > > So here’s what I don’t see: support for your lie that “…as a direct result of the malicious robocalls,” people were unable to vote… The part you quoted literally says that 500-1500 additional judges did not show up as a result of the robocalls. Like, it’s right there in your own post. In fact, you even acknowledge (quoted below) that about “half the reason” might be electoral cheating! As for Neal’s quote, excuse me for not taking seriously the claims of the politician responsible for smooth elections when he says the elections went smoothly. All evidence in the article indicates things did not go smooth, and Neal has a strong incentive for spin. > [@](#): > > So I grant you that some of the morons that the Democrats rely upon for election wins did not show up, What the hell are you talking about? How are _poll workers_ people the democrats “rely upon for election wins?” > [@](#): > > and for about half of them the reason might have been the robocall. What I haven’t seen is voters “unable” to vote for this reason. I see voters who may have had to wait longer, or come back. This is just insane. If a person who works far in the suburbs, or has children or a disable spouse, or who works two jobs, gets turned away from the polls in the morning and told to come back in the afternoon when they are out of the city/caring for children/on shift, that person _cannot vote._ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7772 "2014-11-20T16:30:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, I absolutely deny it. > > But I’m amused to point out than even if it were true There’s no indication of an “if” qualifier in your earlier post. It looks like an acceptance of a premise and a celebration thereof. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7773 "2014-11-20T16:32:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Aren’t you afraid you’ll get shunned by the other liberals at the next Occupy meeting? I’m not a liberal as you define such so the question is moot. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7774 "2014-11-20T16:33:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …I have personally heard CASA of Maryland volunteers telling illegal aliens how easy it is to vote… Everybody has their own personal favorite **Bricker** quote in this thread. This has to be mine, its a peach! Was it a hundred illegal aliens? Two hundred, a thousand? Did they _tell_ you they were illegal, or did you use your own astonishing powers of perception? Were they _all_ illegal aliens? Was it a crowd mostly composed of American citizens of Hispanic derivation, and there were just a couple of illegal aliens there, or did you just assume that? How did you know? You use the plural “volunteers”. Did they _all_ counsel illegal aliens on how to vote? Or just one? Which of the proper authorities did you report this to? What further action did you take in regard to this corrupt and destructive effort on the part of CASA? Other than telling us about it, what did you do? So many questions, so few answers. Perhaps, in the future, you might be a little more circumspect in tossing about words like “liar”? Just a suggestion… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7775 "2014-11-20T16:40:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So I grant you that some of the morons that the Democrats rely upon for election wins did not show up, and for about half of them the reason might have been the robocall. Weren’t these “morons” recruited by the Republican Party? I’ve been avoiding the cheap (and I’ll be honest, untrue) observation that agreeing to work for the Republicans is proof of stupidity in itself, while you seem eager to imply such. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7776 "2014-11-20T16:40:42Z")
Oh, by the way, what \*was \*their advice? Did they offer specific methods for each individual voter fraud felony? And nobody said anything like “Hey, we can’t do that, its against the law…” Did you? Didn’t speak out to protest, solid citizen that you are? Nothing? You did _nothing_? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7777 "2014-11-20T16:55:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Weren’t these “morons” recruited by the Republican Party? I’ve been avoiding the cheap (and I’ll be honest, untrue) observation that agreeing to work for the Republicans is proof of stupidity in itself, while you seem eager to imply such. No. I “imply” what i have outright said: if you get a call that says you must vote a particular way in order to be an election judge, and you believe it, then you’re a moron. This is true if you’ve been recruited by Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, or Monarchists. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7778 "2014-11-20T16:55:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You are, as the previous post demonstrates yet again. You’re a liar, happy to lie to advance your cause. > > Your “acknowledgment” was a poisoned well. So? we’re in the fucking pit–I can poison the goddamn well as much as I want to, mister “liberals are stupid.” You seem to have trouble separating rhetoric from logic, as we demonstrated when you accused me of lying while simultaneously ignoring both my evidence and my conclusion, all because I used a hyperbolic phrase to draw an analogy. I **did** acknowledge that there might be other possibilities–you don’t get to accuse me of logical fallacies by saying “yeah, but you were mean about it so it doesn’t count.” > [@](#): > > Nothing in my original statement in any way suggested anything OTHER than the brain-dead people being the judges; you simply made up the contrary interpretation, This is not true. You claimed that the **only** effect of the robocalls was “braindead” people not showing up to the polls. Given that the judges work the polls and their collective work **affects literally every voter in the city** , your claim that \*\*only \*\*people getting robocalls were affected is strong (not conclusive) evidence that you were writing about voters then and are backpedalling now to cover your ass. > [@](#): > > announced it was true, Wrong. [I explained exactly why your quote didn’t make sense in reference to the judges](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17907912&postcount=7719). > [@](#): > > announced you didn’t believe anything to the contrary, So? You have provided no **evidence** to the contrary. Why shouldn’t I believe what I believe? Note that I specifically said that I “doubt” that you have anything to offer. That’s not the same as saying that I’ll ignore any explanations or evidence you put forward. It simply means that you have enough evidence stacked against your honesty that it will require an exceptional explanation to change my mind. > [@](#): > > advanced “only two” possibilities, It’s not an excluded middle if there is no middle. You still haven’t actually explained **what the third option is**. > [@](#): > > and only then as an afterthought “acknowledged,” another one, Again, so fucking what? You accuse me of stating “only two possibilities” with one breath, then with the next say that when I do acknowledge a third it somehow doesn’t count? Your own post contradicts itself. > [@](#): > > with yet another caveat that you were certain that it wasn’t so. This is a straight-up lie. I said “I doubt it.” I never said, or implied, absolute certainty. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7779 "2014-11-20T16:57:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Everybody has their own personal favorite **Bricker** quote in this thread. This has to be mine, its a peach! > > Was it a hundred illegal aliens? Two hundred, a thousand? Did they _tell_ you they were illegal, or did you use your own astonishing powers of perception? Were they _all_ illegal aliens? Was it a crowd mostly composed of American citizens of Hispanic derivation, and there were just a couple of illegal aliens there, or did you just assume that? How did you know? > > You use the plural “volunteers”. Did they _all_ counsel illegal aliens on how to vote? Or just one? Which of the proper authorities did you report this to? What further action did you take in regard to this corrupt and destructive effort on the part of CASA? Other than telling us about it, what did you do? > > So many questions, so few answers. Perhaps, in the future, you might be a little more circumspect in tossing about words like “liar”? Just a suggestion… I call a liar a liar when he says something factually untrue. I said: I have personally heard CASA of Maryland volunteers telling illegal aliens how easy it is to vote. That’s absolutely, completely, factually true. Why do you care about details? How would that possibly change the story? I didn’t “report” it. Why would I? There was no crime. In fact, I myself have spent many posts here explaining how easy it is for illegal aliens to vote in states without Voter ID. Who has reported me? You? Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7780 "2014-11-20T17:02:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I call a liar a liar when he says something factually untrue. That’s part of the problem. I call a **person** on their **mistakes** when they say something factually untrue. I need quite a bit more evidence that the person is willfully and knowingly prevaricating before I start jumping to the conclusion that they are lying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=388) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=390)