# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/761 "2012-06-30T18:45:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > More’s the pity. You are eminently qualified. Should the time come, you will know of my coronation by your children having free access to public colleges and never having to worry about losing their healthcare. Also homos will be grinding each other to blaring techno music on TV 24/7. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/762 "2012-06-30T18:50:04Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Well, we’re more of an autonomous collective. Bricker, his arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Elucidator from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Lobohan, was to carry Elucidator. \*That \*is why I am your king. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/763 "2012-06-30T20:08:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Cheese Louise, guys, I got my issues with the guy too, but being Catholic? Can’t go there, it’s just plain wrong. There is no human institution, none whatsoever, that is immune to human failing, human perversion, and all the rest of it. I don’t know a single one of them who would say that buggering little boys is a good idea. Its the power structure of the Church that is stupid and corrupt. Liberation Theology, the Berrigan Brothers, Dorothy Day’s Catholic Workers, Archbishop Romeo, the list goes on and on, including a huge passel of nameless nuns. Damn fine people, totally worthy of our support and admiration. > > What next, outlaw Baptists? That would clearly be…ah…hmmmm. OK, let me think on that one for a while… I agree. It’s bad form to attack a group just to get one member of it. However if someone professes a faith in the principles central to the group, but doesn’t follow them, then that is an opening for an attack. Also it’s valid to demonstrate legitimate criticism of that groups core principles if they are relevant to the conversation. What I mean is: Catholics are child molesters! Unfair, and not an accurate or valid criticism. The Catholic church has policies that enable pedophiles to molest children. Accurate and a valid criticism of the Holly See, but not exactly relevant to our general dislike of **Bricker** in regards to his views on voting rights. Therefore not a good thing to lob at him in this thread. Sure it hurts him but it does a real number on your own credibility. Jesus was against abusing the poor. **Bricker** claims to follow Jesus, but abuses the poor, therefore he’s a hypocritical cunt. Valid criticism. **Bricker** is a dickhead, who thinks whatever the court says is true, even if its wrong. Valid criticism. We must remember to maintain credibility. To do this our criticism should have value on its own, and we shouldn’t attack innocent bystanders. Catholics, however you might feel about them as a group, includes otherwise likable people. They do not need to be insulted just to get **Bricker**. We should use surgical strikes for arguments, not napalm the forest, and everyone in. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/764 "2012-06-30T20:23:51Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Bricker, his arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Elucidator from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Lobohan, was to carry Elucidator. \*That \*is why I am your king. That whole stabby thing? I don’t think I would be much good at the stabby thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/765 "2012-06-30T20:25:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That whole stabby thing? I don’t think I would be much good at the stabby thing. Shut up and get in the scabbard. This is a _good gig_! ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/766 "2012-06-30T22:09:07Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > what the fuck have they been up to their whole lives? Yeah, what about those guys that can’t dole out $10 for a poll charge? Not a tax, see, taxes are mandatory. This is optional. Don’t want to pay? Don’t vote. Simple. > [@cmkeller](#): > > As opposed to the Sadducees, who lived by an Epicurean philosophy. Epicurus, the great abstainer? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/767 "2012-07-01T01:09:47Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > Whether we should ask for ID at the polls or not, it’s ridiculous to be an adult in the US and not have an ID. It’s pathetic. I’ve yet to read a compelling set of circumstances. > > I’m asked for ID on almost a daily basis and in the course of my life I’ve been asked to produce my birth certificate, my SScard, and sometimes two forms of picture ID. I’m harshly judging these strangers without ID, what the fuck have they been up to their whole lives? > > Can you conduct yourself without ID in the US? Apparently you can, but IMO, that person is lazy or a moron or weirdly removed from society. > > You know why it gets harder to get an ID the older you get? Because it’s weird to reach adulthood without getting an ID and therefore completely reasonable for officials to be suspicious of identity theft. 10%. 1. Fucking. Per cent. That’s the rate of people in the USA lacking photo ID. One in ten. Go ahead, keep telling me about how easy and natural it is to have ID, and how only weirdos don’t have 'em. Go ahead, keep talking out of your fucking ass. > [@Uzi](#): > > Because $10 at the door doesn’t prove who they are. Nor is requiring an ID a tax. Yes. It is, however, another cost to be carried by the voter. > [@](#): > > Gotta get the stupid and lazy vote. They can’t figure out how or be bothered to get a simple ID, but their votes will guide our country’s direction for the years to come! The fact that you consider this a factor is scary as fuck. Even ignoring the idea that the ambivalent mass is what keeps the radicals down, this idea that your right to vote should be contingent upon your willingness to jump through hoops is just sickening. No, your right to vote shouldn’t be contingent on _anything_ other than being an adult citizen of the country of question, no ifs, ands, or buts. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/768 "2012-07-01T01:29:50Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > That’s the rate of people in the USA lacking photo ID. One in ten. Go ahead, keep telling me about how easy and natural it is to have ID, and how only weirdos don’t have 'em. Go ahead, keep talking out of your fucking ass. Heh, talking out of your ass. Speaking of which, no one has proven why these people don’t have ID’s. You are only guessing as to the reasons. You assume multiple jobs where I’ve already posted a link where only 5% have multiple jobs and that assumes that holding multiple jobs is a valid reason to not get an ID in a 4 year period. You assume it is because they don’t have documentation. The most logical reason is because they don’t want one, don’t need one, or are just to lazy to get one. > [@](#): > > Yes. It is, however, another cost to be carried by the voter. Kind of like the expectation of paying taxes. Another responsibility that people are required to meet. > [@](#): > > No, your right to vote shouldn’t be contingent on _anything_ other than being an _ **adult citizen of the country** _ of question, no ifs, ands, or buts. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/769 "2012-07-01T02:04:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because I’m not king of the leftists, retard. King of Retarded Leftists? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/770 "2012-07-01T02:08:11Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Heh, talking out of your ass. Speaking of which, no one has proven why these people don’t have ID’s. You are only guessing as to the reasons. You assume multiple jobs where I’ve already posted a link where only 5% have multiple jobs and that assumes that holding multiple jobs is a valid reason to not get an ID in a 4 year period. You assume it is because they don’t have documentation. > The most logical reason is because they don’t want one, don’t need one, or are just to lazy to get one. > > Kind of like the expectation of paying taxes. Another responsibility that people are required to meet. > > Idiot. Well said. I don’t get this notion that people shouldn’t have to do anything in order to vote . What’s next, claiming buying food is a poll tax? I mean, you can’t make it to the pools every two or four years without eating in between elections. FREE FOOD FOR EVERYONE. DELIVERED TO THEIR DOORS. AND SPOON FED TO THEM. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/771 "2012-07-01T08:37:14Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Heh, talking out of your ass. Speaking of which, no one has proven why these people don’t have ID’s. You are only guessing as to the reasons. You assume multiple jobs where I’ve already posted a link where only 5% have multiple jobs and that assumes that holding multiple jobs is a valid reason to not get an ID in a 4 year period. You assume it is because they don’t have documentation. > The most logical reason is because they don’t want one, don’t need one, or are just to lazy to get one. Yes, and I don’t _care_ why. That dude was making it out like some tiny fraction of the populace had no ID, like the gun-toting tinfoil hat crowd and the remnant hippies. It’s not that simple. Furthermore, I have no idea _why_ they don’t have them. You’d think that having ID is important… Yet they don’t have them. Maybe, just maybe, it has to do with things other than “they’re lazy”? > [@](#): > > Kind of like the expectation of paying taxes. Another responsibility that people are required to meet. :smack: Yes, felons don’t get to vote. > [@](#): > > Idiot. Hey, I’m not the one proposing a law that would make it impossible for tens of thousands to vote in order to invalidate maybe 10 cases of voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/772 "2012-07-01T09:12:39Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Maybe, just maybe, it has to do with things other than “they’re lazy”? I agree. There could be many reasons why some people don’t have ID. But why invent reasons when stupid and lazy are the most likely culprit for the overwhelming vast majority? > [@](#): > > Hey, I’m not the one proposing a law that would make it impossible for tens of thousands to vote in order to invalidate maybe 10 cases of voter fraud. No, you are the one saying, “being an adult citizen of the country of question”, should be the only criteria. Is just being in the country on the day of the vote good enough proof of that for you? An interesting review of the last election in 2008: [http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Election\_reform/Final%2520report20090218.pdf](http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Election_reform/Final%2520report20090218.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/773 "2012-07-01T09:48:02Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I agree. There could be many reasons why some people don’t have ID. But why invent reasons when stupid and lazy are the most likely culprit for the overwhelming vast majority? Because 10% is a very large portion. Far more than 0.0004%, FWIW. Claiming that all of them are due to extraneous circumstances would be ludicrous, but claiming that, say, 1% of those are? That’s entirely reasonable, IMO. Hell, I’d call 20% reasonable. But even then, you know what? “Lazy” is still not a terrible excuse. If I have no other reason to have ID in my life (and this isn’t exactly rare, mind you), and getting ID is possible, but takes time and energy to get… Well, should I _really_ bother just to be able to vote? Keeping in mind, of course, that voter apathy is at very high rates… > [@](#): > > No, you are the one saying, “being an adult citizen of the country of question”, should be the only criteria. Is just being in the country on the day of the vote good enough proof of that for you? 1. This isn’t a fair assessment of the situation as, as we have pointed out, there are commonly used methods of detecting and preventing voter fraud 2. It’s worked pretty damn well thus far! > [@](#): > > An interesting review of the last election in 2008: > [http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Election\_reform/Final%2520report20090218.pdf](http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Election_reform/Final%2520report20090218.pdf) Oh look, a 200-page document. Anything in particular that you found “interesting”? Well, other than this part: • In the states that only ask first-time voters to show any form of identification (including a letter addressed to them), one-quarter of all voters stated they would not have been allowed to vote had they not produced a photo ID. • African Americans and Hispanics were asked to show “picture ID” more often than Whites — 70% for African Americans, 65% for Hispanics, and 51% for Whites. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/774 "2012-07-01T11:41:51Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > But why invent reasons when stupid and lazy are the most likely culprit for the overwhelming vast majority? In all honesty, I’d be perfectly fine if the opposition said “we are proposing these laws to exclude stupid and lazy people from being able to vote”. That’s pretty much been our estimation of the opposition’s position from the start. It’s the disingenuous appeals to “voter fraud” that really get our goat. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/775 "2012-07-01T14:31:14Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > In all honesty, I’d be perfectly fine if the opposition said “we are proposing these laws to exclude stupid and lazy people from being able to vote”. That’s pretty much been our estimation of the opposition’s position from the start. Now if only there was a way to exclude the stupid from the right (and there are a lot of them), it would be a wash. > [@](#): > > It’s the disingenuous appeals to “voter fraud” that really get our goat. It’s not as if the left actually cares if these people have ID’s even given how beneficial it would be for them to have them, it’s the fact that it’s their votes that are most likely to be lost that bothers them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/776 "2012-07-01T15:10:25Z")
Is there something dishonest about that? Would that be less hypocritical than pretending to care about voter integrity when its really about trimming the other side’s vote total? Because, as I have pointed out to you many, many times: if they wanted to fix the problem, they could do it. See any such effort? Or do you see efforts to further restrict voter registration? Or do you see efforts like rolling back “Sunday voting”? Which, again I remind, has nothing whatsoever to do with the integrity of our voting rolls. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/777 "2012-07-01T15:48:29Z")
Yes, increased voter participation has the side effect of improving the Democrats’ partisan electoral prospects. It also has the effect of strengthening democracy. See, that’s part of what the Democrats _stand for_. The Republicans’ partisan advantage is, however, aligned with a need to \*weaken \*democracy. How blind do you have to be to draw an equivalence there? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/778 "2012-07-01T15:51:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Would that be less hypocritical than pretending to care about voter integrity when its really about trimming the other side’s vote total? Other than the Republicans are painted as the ‘evil’ party who only cares about getting elected. So, if Democrats are the ‘good’ party who only cares about getting elected, you see a difference between them on how they actually act? And you wonder why in that link I provided about 43% of people who don’t vote don’t do so because they don’t like the choices they are offered? > [@](#): > > Because, as I have pointed out to you many, many times: if they wanted to fix the problem, they could do it. Ah, so you are relying on the Republicans to fix your problems? As I’ve pointed out many times, a proactive party would look at this as an opportunity to get more votes by helping people get the ID’s they are lacking so they can vote. People tend to remember that sort of thing, YMMV of course. But then a party that relies on lazy people to vote for them probably reflects their base when it comes to motivating themselves. Then again, maybe the Democratic party actually realizes that these people aren’t going to vote no matter what they do and are using this issue as a talking point on how evil those Republicans are. Given that in the first link I provided it states that 76% percent of the people polled supported the idea of voter ID, it could find them on the wrong side of this issue. Another link to piss off BPC. [http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout\_2008G.html](http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2008G.html) 61.6 Turnout rate for 2008 = 131,304,731 voters. From my previous [link](http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Election_reform/Final%2520report20090218.pdf): > [@](#): > > Election administration issues played a smaller role in the decision not to vote. Although 20% of respondents cited both registrations problems and long lines as a factor, only 10% cited identification as a concern, one of the lowest-frequency response categories, on par with forgetting to vote (nine percent) and the weather (eight percent). Therefore, although factors that may be at the control of election administrators, such as line length and voter registration systems, bear some responsibility for the failure of some to vote, these administration-related issues pale in comparison to political and personal considerations that individuals bring to the election process. Of the 38.4% of people who did not vote only 10% of those cited identification as a concern. That ain’t 11% of the total population by any stretch. Closer to 4% actually. Ranking up their with just forgot to vote and the weather for reasons not to vote. Nor is it indicative of their ability to get ID, just that it could be a problem. It is given that these numbers would change if voter ID was required everywhere, so no need to point out the obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/779 "2012-07-01T15:57:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How blind do you have to be to draw an equivalence there? Dunno, about as blind as thinking that requiring voter ID would stop people from voting who actually would like to vote? That the vote of the lazy and stupid would strengthen a country rather than just elect representatives that reflect those attitudes? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/780 "2012-07-01T16:05:41Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Dunno, about as blind as thinking that requiring voter ID would stop people from voting who actually would like to vote? That the vote of the lazy and stupid would strengthen a country rather than just elect representatives that reflect those attitudes? Democracy reflects the will of the people, all the people. I take it you’re against democracy then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=40)