# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 390
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7781 "2014-11-20T17:07:02Z")
> [@](#): > > …I didn’t “report” it. Why would I? There was no crime… Oh! So they were just saying stuff like “Its easy to vote in America, you just walk up to the polling place as a registered voter, and in a few hours time, you get to vote.” Going for the semantic trap door escape hatch, are you? “Why, no, I didn’t suggest there was anything wrong with what they were saying, they were just saying is was easy to vote in America, they just happened to be saying it to illegal aliens!” Yeah, that’ll work! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7782 "2014-11-20T17:41:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. > > I “imply” what i have outright said: if you get a call that says you must vote a particular way in order to be an election judge, and you believe it, then you’re a moron. This is true if you’ve been recruited by Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, or Monarchists. And I’m sure we can expect your victorious laughter if it ever come to pass that Democrats, Socialists or Monarchists _lie to their own workers_ in hopes some will be fooled, voters blocked, and the party win. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7783 "2014-11-20T17:50:43Z")
> [@](#): > > …But if it is, yes, my response is the one I’ve already made, above. I have personally heard a CASA volunteer telling people that they didn’t need papers to vote. So you don’t need an organized effort, just a grass-roots sort of understanding in the community… From the Great Debates thread. Post number 226, as we were discussing the near impossibility of an organized voter fraud effort. Slightly different story, this time they are only “people”, not “illegal aliens”. But the implication of CASA volunteers fostering voter fraud is clear. After all, we were talking about organized voter fraud when you brought it up. Odd that you didn’t tell us _then_ that they were illegal aliens. Did you find out later? Or was it two entirely separate incidents, one just “people” and the other “illegal aliens”? Go to a lot of CASA functions, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7784 "2014-11-20T18:05:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > From the Great Debates thread. Post number 226, as we were discussing the near impossibility of an organized voter fraud effort. Slightly different story, this time they are only “people”, not “illegal aliens”. But the implication of CASA volunteers fostering voter fraud is clear. After all, we were talking about organized voter fraud when you brought it up. “People” does not contradict “illegal aliens.” > [@](#): > > Odd that you didn’t tell us _then_ that they were illegal aliens. Did you find out later? Or was it two entirely separate incidents, one just “people” and the other “illegal aliens”? Go to a lot of CASA functions, do you? I used to go to a lot of CASA functions, yes. And of the number of “people” in the group, at least four were, to my personal knowledge, not currently in this country legally. This is a civil violation, not a crime. But the fact remains that I reported precisely accurately what I heard. And you know what’s simultaneously hilarious and pathetic? For all your insinuations that I fabricated this event, if I had video of it and released it, you’d criticize me for violating their confidence and hurting their cause. Honestly: suppose I showed you a video of this and asked you if I should make it public. What would you advise me? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7785 "2014-11-20T18:06:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And I’m sure we can expect your victorious laughter if it ever come to pass that Democrats, Socialists or Monarchists _lie to their own workers_ in hopes some will be fooled, voters blocked, and the party win. Sure. My laughter at Democrats, Socialists, and Monarchists is almost a given. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7786 "2014-11-20T18:08:34Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > That’s part of the problem. I call a **person** on their **mistakes** when they say something factually untrue. I need quite a bit more evidence that the person is willfully and knowingly prevaricating before I start jumping to the conclusion that they are lying. Funny how all your “mistakes,” break the same way. Actually, I know, it’s not. When you see something that validates your preconceptions, you run with it. When you see something that runs counter to your preconceptions, you investigate it thoroughly. That’s why you hang out on a message board dedicated to fighting ignorance, right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7787 "2014-11-20T18:12:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When you see something that validates your preconceptions, you run with it. When you see something that runs counter to your preconceptions, you investigate it thoroughly. You mean he argues against stuff he disagrees with, and doesn’t argue with stuff he agrees with? How dare he! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7788 "2014-11-20T18:21:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You mean he argues against stuff he disagrees with, and doesn’t argue with stuff he agrees with? How dare he! No, that’s not what I mean. Feynman explained the concept well: > [@](#): > > For example, if you’re doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid–not only what you think is right about it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things you thought of that you’ve eliminated by some other experiment, and how they worked–to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated. > > Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be given, if you know them. You must do the best you can–if you know anything at all wrong, or possibly wrong–to explain it. If you make a theory, for example, and advertise it, or put it out, then you must also put down all the facts that disagree with it, as well as those that agree with it. There is also a more subtle problem. When you have put a lot of ideas together to make an elaborate theory, you want to make sure, when explaining what it fits, that those things it fits are not just the things that gave you the idea for the theory; but that the finished theory makes something else come out right, in addition. > > Millikan measured the charge on an electron by an experiment with falling oil drops, and got an answer which we now know not to be quite right. It’s a little bit off because he had the incorrect value for the viscosity of air. It’s interesting to look at the history of measurements of the charge of an electron, after Millikan. If you plot them as a function of time, you find that one is a little bit bigger than Millikan’s, and the next one’s a little bit bigger than that, and the next one’s a little bit bigger than that, until finally they settle down to a number which is higher. > > Why didn’t they discover the new number was higher right away? It’s a thing that scientists are ashamed of–this history–because it’s apparent that people did things like this: When they got a number that was too high above Millikan’s, they thought something must be wrong–and they would look for and find a reason why something might be wrong. When they got a number close to Millikan’s value they didn’t look so hard. And so they eliminated the numbers that were too far off, and did other things like that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7789 "2014-11-20T18:28:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, that’s not what I mean. > > Feynman explained the concept well: That’s great stuff. In my full time job, I certainly try to do that. But this isn’t my full time job – I do this for fun (as do most Dopers). And like most Dopers, I have limited time to spend on the Dope. So we spend it doing fun stuff. Fun stuff on the Dope, for me, inclues arguing with people about topics we disagree on. “fun stuff” does not include poring over the arguments of those who agree with me to find out their weak points. It’s not fun. Maybe it’s fun for you. Or maybe you have enough time to devote to the Dope that it might as well be a full time job (note – you probably don’t… I’m pretty sure you’ve talked about your job as a lawyer). But for most of us, we’re going to do what’s fun – and in this thread, arguing with **Bricker** is fun. Poring over all the other side arguments is not fun. So I’m not going to do it. So quit whining about it already. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7790 "2014-11-20T18:32:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ha ha ha! > > You Democrats are so incredibly impotent. > > Took the Senate, we did, right out from under your noses! And you can’t do a thing about it!!! > > Woo hoo!!! > > USA! USA! USA! > [@Bricker](#): > > But I’m amused to point out than even if it were true, it shows stupidity and impotence. If Palast’s paranoid fantasy were true, it means that the GOP took the Senate right out from under your noses, and you can’t do a thing about it. That’s the funniest thing ever. > > Fucking morons. According to you, the GOP placed into effect “cheating” rules, they were accepted as rules, executed, and you lost. And you think “most people” imagine that to be cheating. > > No, most people imagine that to be a reasonable program with reasonable results. Where is the groundswell of backlash for this “cheating?” Nowhere: no one of any importance cares. That article may as well have said, “Thank you, sir; may I have another?” > > In your magic unicorn and pony world, who cares what fluffy rainbow rules you think ought to exist? Wow. For all the veneer of civility you’ve affected over the years, when the mask is off you really are just a hateful, spiteful little man, aren’t you? I actually thought you’d been unfairly maligned by some posters at times, but the scales have fallen from my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7791 "2014-11-20T19:11:13Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Wow. For all the veneer of civility you’ve affected over the years, when the mask is off you really are just a hateful, spiteful little man, aren’t you? > > I actually thought you’d been unfairly maligned by some posters at times, but the scales have fallen from my eyes. Yes, and of course you spoke up during each one of those unfair malignings, right? I was supposed to keep civil, and just take those unfair attacks? That was your idea? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7792 "2014-11-20T19:21:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, and of course you spoke up during each one of those unfair malignings, right? > > I was supposed to keep civil, and just take those unfair attacks? That was your idea? People showing you that you’re wrong isn’t an unfair attack, Bricker. Wait, you actually \*understand \*the concept of fair? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7793 "2014-11-20T19:23:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “People” does not contradict “illegal aliens.” … No, but it specifies, yes? No one doubted that they were people. > [@](#): > > …I used to go to a lot of CASA functions, yes. And of the number of “people” in the group, at least four were, to my personal knowledge, not currently in this country legally. This is a civil violation, not a crime. But the fact remains that I reported precisely accurately what I heard… You brought it up specifically as a rebuttal to my point about the impossibility of organized voter fraud. Your exact words are on display, you said that all that would have been needed was an understanding in the community to further the cause of illegal voting, and offered us this example. It wasn’t about illegal voting? Then why did you say it? Squirm harder. > [@](#): > > …And you know what’s simultaneously hilarious and pathetic? For all your insinuations that I fabricated this event, if I had video of it and released it, you’d criticize me for violating their confidence and hurting their cause… Please submit your Certificate of Telepathy for our inspection. But that aside, yes, indeed, I am a very bad person. But I’m not the guy who said this stuff. You are. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7794 "2014-11-20T19:24:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, and of course you spoke up during each one of those unfair malignings, right? Egad, the whining just goes on and on… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7795 "2014-11-20T19:26:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure. My laughter at Democrats, Socialists, and Monarchists is almost a given. So your current laughter is directed at Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7796 "2014-11-20T19:30:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No, but it specifies, yes? No one doubted that they were people. > You brought it up specifically as a rebuttal to my point about the impossibility of organized voter fraud. Your exact words are on display, you said that all that would have been needed was an understanding in the community to further the cause of illegal voting, and offered us this example. > > It wasn’t about illegal voting? Then why did you say it? Squirm harder. It shows the possibility of organized voter fraud. That’s why I said it. It’s not a crime. That’s why I didn’t report it. What else you got? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7797 "2014-11-20T19:30:46Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Wow. For all the veneer of civility you’ve affected over the years, when the mask is off you really are just a hateful, spiteful little man, aren’t you? > > I actually thought you’d been unfairly maligned by some posters at times, but the scales have fallen from my eyes. I think he suffers from a persecution complex combined with delusions of adequacy. Apparently being (in his opinion) unfairly treated in the past is his license to act like a complete ass now. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7798 "2014-11-20T19:31:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So your current laughter is directed at Republicans? My current laughter is directed at the people that believed the robocalls. If there are Republicans in that group, then sure. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7799 "2014-11-20T19:54:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My current laughter is directed at the people that believed the robocalls. If there are Republicans in that group, then sure. You’re consistent only in your inconsistencies. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/7800 "2014-11-20T19:55:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Egad, the whining just goes on and on… He has a point; I did not stick up for him, and probably should’ve. It doesn’t really have any bearing on what’s happening here, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=389) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=391)