# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 420
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8381 "2015-10-14T17:54:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The prosecution of the cases will be easier if the voters presented ID. Only if the defense doesn’t learn the phrase, “Can you be positive it wasn’t a fake ID?” If the GOP cared they’d be instituting thumbprints or video recording the sign-ins. But those things don’t let them steal elections. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8382 "2015-10-14T18:10:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Only if the defense doesn’t learn the phrase, “Can you be positive it wasn’t a fake ID?” > > If the GOP cared they’d be instituting thumbprints or video recording the sign-ins. But those things don’t let them steal elections. I believe I was the first person in this thread to propose fingerprints, and the opposition t that plan came from a liberal. I could be wrong – it’s been about three years. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8383 "2015-10-14T18:13:09Z")
So, Alabama removing DMV offices from every county where the population is more than 75% black - is there anything to be done about that? Any protests? Any grassroots efforts to bus people to get ID’s? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8384 "2015-10-14T18:25:21Z")
> **[Governor proposes solution to reopen 31 DMV offices](https://www.wbrc.com/story/30253068/governor-proposes-solution-to-reopen-31-dmv-offices/)** > > In a surprise reversal, the state now says it might be willing to re-open 31 DMV offices closed just 13 days ago because of budget cuts. A solution is in the works, apparently. If rural counties and the black caucus will support an effort to fund these branches, perhaps a way can be found. > [@](#): > > …Bentley said he tried to talk with members of the rural and black caucus over the past week in order to come up with a plan. … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8385 "2015-10-14T18:27:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The prosecution of the cases will be easier if the voters presented ID. You mean, for all \*three \*of them? The avalanche of voter fraud in Kansas might be stemmed? We can all breathe a sigh of relief at this happy news! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8386 "2015-10-14T18:52:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The prosecution of the cases will be easier if the voters presented ID. Perhaps slightly. A poll worker swearing that they diligently checked all the IDs has some (small) value as evidence, but it’d have to be a pretty marginal case for that to move me from a ‘not-guilty’ to a ‘guilty’ verdict. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8387 "2016-02-04T23:58:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You’re all worthless motherfucking liars with the civic virtue of a sewer-rat’s tapeworm. “Voter fraud” is a non-problem and you **know** it. The Dems don’t want undocumented immigrants to vote any more than you do, and you know that, too. This is all about disfranchising the poor and minorities. Shame on you all, and STFU forever. That right there ^ is the OP. [This right here is the proof that the OP is correct](http://pages.ucsd.edu/~zhajnal/page5/documents/voterIDhajnaletal.pdf). (.pdf!) [Washington Post article here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/04/new-evidence-that-voter-id-laws-skew-democracy-in-favor-of-white-republicans/). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8388 "2016-02-05T00:06:25Z")
BTW, [Tuesday’s presidential primary will be the first such in New Hampshire where voters will have to show ID.](https://www.wbur.org/2016/02/04/new-hampshire-voter-id-law) IDK who that favors on the Pub side or on the Dem side. Perhaps it just doesn’t matter, in primaries. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8389 "2016-02-05T00:40:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That right there ^ is the OP. > > [This right here is the proof that the OP is correct](http://pages.ucsd.edu/~zhajnal/page5/documents/voterIDhajnaletal.pdf). (.pdf!) [Washington Post article here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/04/new-evidence-that-voter-id-laws-skew-democracy-in-favor-of-white-republicans/). Hey! Actual data! **Bricker** , any comment? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8390 "2016-02-05T03:04:26Z")
Just like a liberal lefty, can’t make a good argument so you start dragging in facts! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8391 "2016-02-05T17:40:24Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Hey! Actual data! > > **Bricker** , any comment? It’s a working paper, not peer reviewed. So I’d like a chance to study it, and a chance for others better versed in methodology than I am to review it as well. Prior studies have, as we previously discussed, shown different results. It’s not clear to me why this one is correct and they are flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8392 "2016-02-05T17:41:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s a working paper, not peer reviewed. So I’d like a chance to study it, and a chance for others better versed in methodology than I am to review it as well. Prior studies have, as we previously discussed, shown different results. It’s not clear to me why this one is correct and they are flawed. And, Bo, that’s a blogger, not a “Washington Post article.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8393 "2016-02-05T17:56:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s a working paper, not peer reviewed. So I’d like a chance to study it, and a chance for others better versed in methodology than I am to review it as well. Prior studies have, as we previously discussed, shown different results. It’s not clear to me why this one is correct and they are flawed. Perhaps not so much “flawed” as dated. > [@](#): > > The findings are notable because they’re some of the first using data in elections that took place _after_ some states implemented photo ID requirements to vote. Previous studies on the effects of these laws showed mixed results. A 2014 report by the Government Accountability Office examined 10 of these studies. Five showed no significant effect of voter ID laws on turnout, four found a significant decrease in turnout, and one found, paradoxically, that the laws increased turnout. > > But each of these 10 studies was of general elections that took place before 2008. Most of the strictest ID laws were passed after that, so the ability of earlier research to gauge the impact of these laws is extremely limited. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8394 "2016-02-05T18:02:02Z")
Truth be told, I’d be okay with voter IDs if: 1. Everyone who was registered for a previous election gets grandfathered in; 2. The requirement is coupled with an energetic governmental effort to put such IDs into the hands of every citizen, including going to middle- and high-schools to register young citizens and such; 3. The regulations are common-sensical, i.e. even an expired driver’s license would work if coupled with something else showing the address is still current; 4. The registration process is greatly improved so every citizen is automatically registered (and cannot be casually unregistered) and the rolls updated constantly any time a citizen has an interaction with the government, unless they specifically opt out in which case they’re idiots and screw them; and 5. The process (as well as deciding on district borders) is taken out of the hands of officials who themselves might be re-elected by the process, on the basis of conflict of interest. Basically, I’d trust it (provisionally) if steps are taken to reduce any possible benefit to elected officials, because the temptation for them to change the rules to increase their odds of _re_-election is too great. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8395 "2016-02-05T18:11:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Truth be told, I’d be okay with voter IDs if: Of course. No one in this thread (that I recall) has taken the position that the very idea of requiring ID to vote is in some sense flawed. There are plenty of countries that have voter ID laws that seem to work fine. The devil is in the details, particularly the details of motivation and transitional logistics. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8396 "2016-02-05T18:13:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s a working paper, not peer reviewed. So I’d like a chance to study it, and a chance for others better versed in methodology than I am to review it as well. Prior studies have, as we previously discussed, shown different results. It’s not clear to me why this one is correct and they are flawed. Fair enough. Imagine, hypothetically, that you believed the findings to be accurate. Would that change any of the stands that you have espoused in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8397 "2016-02-05T18:20:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And, Bo, that’s a blogger, not a “Washington Post article.” Sorry, it’s published under the Washington Post banner; I didn’t notice the tiny “Wonkblog”. Does it matter, tho? Is it somehow incorrect or suspect information? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8398 "2016-02-05T19:27:00Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Sorry, it’s published under the Washington Post banner; I didn’t notice the tiny “Wonkblog”. Does it matter, tho? Is it somehow incorrect or suspect information? Yes, it does matter, quite a lot. It’s the difference between news reporting and opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8399 "2016-02-05T20:10:00Z")
You guys are always talking about how you should look to Canada for a more civilized way of doing things. I agree. In Canada, you have to show positive identification to vote. No one on the left or right sees any problem with this whatsoever. A while ago I had an argument with a lefty friend who was ranting about how the Republicans in the U.S. wanted to ‘subvert democracy’. I asked him why he thought requiring proof of citizenship was subverting democracy, and he looked flabbergasted. “That’s not the issue at all! Of course they have to show that - it only makes sense. It’s something else the Republicans are doing!” When I explained that the issue really was about requiring proof of citizenship before voting, he refused to believe me because that was obvious common sense. What country _wouldn’t_ want to make sure you were eligible to vote before doing so? He promised to get back to me when he found out what the ‘real’ issue was, but never did. It’s quite clear to me that the reason this is such a huge issue in the U.S. is precisely because the left knows that they would lose votes if that happened because some of their voters wouldn’t be arsed to actually go through the minimal steps required. To me, and I’ll bet to 90% of Canadians if you asked them, if someone can’t be bothered to register to vote or to get some form of official ID, they probably aren’t the kind of person you want voting on stuff anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8400 "2016-02-05T20:12:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You guys are always talking about how you should look to Canada for a more civilized way of doing things. I agree. I daresay the relevant social factors are somewhat different there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=419) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=421)