# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 439
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8761 "2016-03-10T06:23:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Then you are inept at communication. > [@raventhief](#): > > Cliven Bundy referred to “the negro” having less freedom now than under slavery. Do you suppose he was referring to one specific black person, or all of them? Saying “the liberal” implies all (or most) not just one. The word “the” makes it a clear synchecdoche , in my opinion. This. Bricker is a lying sack of toad shit. He has reverted to character, and is engaging is deliberate dishonesty. The man has a very pronounced Jekyll-and-Hyde syndrome. He can go for days, even months, posting rationally and reasonably. Then the potion goes down his gullet and he turns into a monster, desperately relying on dictionary games and logic-chopping, and using language to confound communication rather than to empower communication. At that point, mere obloquy is the only meaningful response. Later, he’ll get over it, and post sensibly for a while. Maybe some day he’ll get old enough to stop having these periods. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8762 "2016-03-10T06:33:28Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Or else they are working multiple jobs trying to keep their family together and living hand to mouth, and realized that while voting is something that he would very much like to do, on any given week day there were always things that had more immediate real world importance, that take precedence over the abstract advantage of casting a vote. Sorry, but I believe that cases like that are so rare as to be meaningless, especially given the other real world advantages of having photo ID. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8763 "2016-03-10T06:36:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This. Bricker is a lying sack of toad shit. He has reverted to character, and is engaging is deliberate dishonesty. No. But it’s hilarious that Bryan can completely misrepresent the study that discusses social mobility, and that’s not lying. It’s sincerity that’s weakened because of hai lack of concern, or some shit. Meanwhile I say to one person, “The cry of the liberal,” and explain that I was talking about one liberal, and it’s fundamental dishonesty. The dishonesty here is not mine. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8764 "2016-03-10T06:47:33Z")
I work with people trying to better themselves (literacy volunteer). I meet, and work with, people who work absolutely shit jobs, but are at the same time working to improve their lots in life. I’m in a somewhat rural area, so most have dmv issued licenses. It’s not easy to get around if you can’t drive. However, the working poor have NO less “right” to cast a vote based on economic circumstance, than their more affluent counterparts. If i lived in a more city - type environment, more of my clients would be more likely to be bereft of picture id. I have clients who are soul- crushingly poor- in our democracy, are their voices less important? Do they have less “right” to determine our government? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8765 "2016-03-10T06:49:59Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I work with people trying to better themselves (literacy volunteer). I meet, and work with, people who work absolutely shit jobs, but are at the same time working to improve their lots in life. I’m in a somewhat rural area, so most have dmv issued licenses. It’s not easy to get around if you can’t drive. However, the working poor have NO less “right” to cast a vote based on economic circumstance, than their more affluent counterparts. If i lived in a more city - type environment, more of my clients would be more likely to be bereft of picture id. I have clients who are soul- crushingly poor- in our democracy, are their voices less important? Do they have less “right” to determine our government? No one’s right to cast a ballot is being removed. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8766 "2016-03-10T06:53:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No one’s right to cast a ballot is being removed. You have implied (or perhaps the issue is in my inference) that if you don’t esteem the vote highly enough to plan months in advance then you don’t deserve to cast the ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8767 "2016-03-10T06:58:39Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > You have implied (or perhaps the issue is in my inference) that if you don’t esteem the vote highly enough to plan months in advance then you don’t deserve to cast the ballot. No. I have never once suggested I am weighing whether or not anyone deserves to cast a ballot. I have said that whatever burden exists by requiring photo ID to cast a ballot is acceptable, at least thus far. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8768 "2016-03-10T13:49:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have said that whatever burden exists by requiring photo ID to cast a ballot is acceptable, at least thus far. Too bad you can’t demonstrate why the burden needs to exist in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8769 "2016-03-10T13:59:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sorry, but I believe that cases like that are so rare as to be meaningless How rare are cases of voter fraud? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8770 "2016-03-10T14:24:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Also – Fussell seems to overlook this – the working class can also be subdivided racially/ethnically. Among other things Marx got wrong, a social class is not merely a set of people of the same economic status or economic function. It is also a sociological entity. People of the same class do not just work at the same kinds of jobs or earn the same level of income, they live in the same kinds of neighborhoods, go to the same schools, socialize with each other, marry each other, and absorb a similar outlook growing up. The white and black working classes are really two different social classes, and will remain so until socialization and neighborhood and intermarriage between them is a great deal more common than it is now. It’s not that either is above the other (except that the whites probably provide most of the high-proles as Fussell defines them); they’re like two halves of the same layer of the cake. Or thirds, or whatever, because the Latino working class is separate from both, etc. Thank you for the information and the links. I was just wondering who today thinks they can just barely graduate high school with no skills and start off making “middle class” income with their first job. Do people actually think that is possible for a vast majority of people? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8771 "2016-03-10T14:50:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Too bad you can’t demonstrate why the burden needs to exist in the first place. I can: to assuage public confidence in the results of a vote, if the result is an ultra-close election. You don’t agree that concern carries enough weight. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8772 "2016-03-10T14:57:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can: to assuage public confidence in the results of a vote, if the result is an ultra-close election. > > You don’t agree that concern carries enough weight. Yes, I tend not to agree when some citizens are scapegoated just to keep up the morale of the others. And in this case, the people being scapegoated aren’t even the ones actually targeted by the law itself (because _those_ don’t actually exist) - they’re innocent bystander scapegoats. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8773 "2016-03-10T15:00:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yes, I tend not to agree when some citizens are scapegoated just to keep up the morale of the others. And in this case, the people being scapegoated aren’t even the ones actually targeted by the law itself (because _those_ don’t actually exist) - they’re innocent bystander scapegoats. There is no scapegoating – the requirement to provide photo ID applies to every voter. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8774 "2016-03-10T15:11:18Z")
And everybody dies, the poor just get there a little sooner. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8775 "2016-03-10T15:11:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have no sympathy for someone who goes into debt to have a large-screen plasma TV, no matter how much such an item is “required,” for the lifestyle. Whether you sympathize with them does not matter. What matters is that your diagnosis of what is holding them back is completely wrong and completely irrelevant and willfully disingenuous. > [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t recall mentioning the stock market. When did I? “But the new living room set is money that could earn interest for them instead of interest for the store, if they kept the old furniture.” Perhaps you meant a savings account rather than a securities investment. But it doesn’t matter; neither will gain enough value to make a real difference in the person’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8776 "2016-03-10T15:25:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There is no scapegoating – the requirement to provide photo ID applies to every voter. Much in the way, as Anatole France put it, the rich and poor alike are forbidden to steal bread and sleep under bridges. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8777 "2016-03-10T15:35:15Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So. … to be fair, “the whatever” has long been used as a collective noun? **Was** long used. “The Jew,” etc., is not considered good usage today. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8778 "2016-03-10T15:39:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Whether you sympathize with them does not matter. What matters is that your diagnosis of what is holding them back is completely wrong and completely irrelevant and willfully disingenuous. > > “But the new living room set is money that could earn interest for them instead of interest for the store, if they kept the old furniture.” Perhaps you meant a savings account rather than a securities investment. But it doesn’t matter; neither will gain enough value to make a real difference in the person’s life. It’s not the value gained by the interest that is particularly significant, though: it’s merely that the interest is positive, as opposed to PAYING interest. In other words, the focus in that sentence is the “rather than for the store.” And what you claim is not true: even a small amount consistently put away in an interest bearing account, over 25 years, will make a difference in retirement possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8779 "2016-03-10T15:42:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Much in the way, as Anatole France put it, the rich and poor alike are forbidden to steal bread and sleep under bridges. Yes, because a society cannot permit people to steal bread from other people, even though such restrictions typically constrain the poor more than they do the rich. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8780 "2016-03-10T15:42:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can: to assuage public confidence in the results of a vote, if the result is an ultra-close election. So, this is about people’s feelings? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=438) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=440)