# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/861 "2012-07-03T14:35:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But they’re poor! And they have six jobs! Every day of the week, they get up at 2 AM, work 28 hours, and go to bed four hours after they have to wake up the next day! Who could get to a DMV with a schedule like that? Plus they were born in a tiki hut on a deserted island off the coast of Hawaii with only a coconut crab in attendance, so they have no birth certificate. They’re disenfranchised! Hundreds of thousands of them! It shouldn’t be harder to register to vote than to vote. Erecting barriers to make the process more difficult is a deliberate attempt to “keep out the riffraff”. That you don’t understand the day to day living conditions of people that live paycheck to almost paycheck is unsurprising. What’s the big deal if people not like you have more trouble getting to the DMV that you do? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/862 "2012-07-03T14:36:06Z")
When did “insurmountable” become your standard, **Uzi**? Literacy tests for voting are kosher because, after all, you could learn to read, yes? Nobody is stopping you! Many if not most of our Founding Fuckups were totally cool with a property requirement, to ensure that you have some “skin in the game”. Not “insurmountable”, you could go get some money, buy some property. I guess then that the whole thing about canceling Sunday voting, favored by many black voters, that is totally kosher because, after all, nobody is stopping you from voting on Tuesday. Of course, it appears to be an effort to scale back black voting, but what does that matter, its not “insurmountable”! I suggest you might want to think about that a bit longer. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/863 "2012-07-03T14:39:39Z")
Wildly exaggerating a real problem into an absurdity does not a valid case make, Counselor. Pretty sure you know that, they probably touched on that in law school. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/864 "2012-07-03T15:15:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But they’re poor! And they have six jobs! Every day of the week, they get up at 2 AM, work 28 hours, and go to bed four hours after they have to wake up the next day! Who could get to a DMV with a schedule like that? Plus they were born in a tiki hut on a deserted island off the coast of Hawaii with only a coconut crab in attendance, so they have no birth certificate. They’re disenfranchised! Hundreds of thousands of them! Most poor people work harder than you. I like how you aren’t even pretending you’re not a slimy prick now. This is good. Too many people are taken in by your veneer of civility. You’re a rabid dog, Bricker. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/865 "2012-07-03T15:22:21Z")
Uzi, are you one of the free market types? Do you believe that incentives work? I take your refrigerator and put it in your attic. Do you think you’ll eat as much? See, I’m incentivising you to eat less. The same way if you make it a huge hassle to vote, you’re incentivising marginal cases to not vote. Of course it’s possible that you’ll walk up stairs and open the attic ladder and trudge up to look in the fridge. But you’ll probably do it less often. In the case of voter ID laws, they are designed to make the people without IDs less likely to vote. Remember, that the law isn’t actually doing anything. There isn’t any voter fraud of any significance in the country. It doesn’t serve a real purpose. It’s just there to act as a drag on people who have to expend hours to get an ID and keep them home on election day. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/866 "2012-07-03T16:26:20Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Shhhh, This sort of information has no place in the debate. Just because there is a system that is working that has voter ID requirements, and the population still votes with greater voter participation than in the US, doesnt mean that this sort of requirement in the US is unfair. I think you mean isn’t. But either way… It really is meaningless to point to Canada, because the situations are either considerably different, or I’m going to lodge the same hefty complaints to them as well. What percentage of voting-age citizens in Canada lack photo ID? What percentage of voting-age citizens in Canada live in crippling poverty or work multiple jobs? This isn’t splitting hairs, these are genuinely important differences. > [@](#): > > I mean, gee wilikers, we only have to show ID to us our credit cards, buy a beer, cigarettes, drive, get a student discount at the movie theater… > > Obviously, this sort of requirement has increased the use of cash, decreased drinking, smoking, driving, and people paid the 2 bucks more at the theaters… None of those things are integral to the functionality of democracy. By preventing people from hitting the road without ID, you aren’t preventing them from being able to put their vote out for government. > [@Bricker](#): > > But they’re poor! And they have six jobs! Every day of the week, they get up at 2 AM, work 28 hours, and go to bed four hours after they have to wake up the next day! Who could get to a DMV with a schedule like that? Plus they were born in a tiki hut on a deserted island off the coast of Hawaii with only a coconut crab in attendance, so they have no birth certificate. They’re disenfranchised! Hundreds of thousands of them! _sigh_ X and Y. Gimme your values. Come on, let’s hear it. And explain why. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/867 "2012-07-03T16:54:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But they’re poor! And they have six jobs! Every day of the week, they get up at 2 AM, work 28 hours, and go to bed four hours after they have to wake up the next day! Who could get to a DMV with a schedule like that? Plus they were born in a tiki hut on a deserted island off the coast of Hawaii with only a coconut crab in attendance, so they have no birth certificate. They’re disenfranchised! Hundreds of thousands of them! Does \*anyone \*still require \*any \*more evidence about this waste of oxygen? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/868 "2012-07-03T17:21:14Z")
I see a narrative, a mythology. Like a pilot sees the outline of the mountain through the fog, just before he creams into the side. As through a glass, darkly… We start with rock-solid fact, irrefutable, the foundation of modern political truth: America is a center right country, most Americans (and all _real_ Americans!) are in alignment with the Republican Party, everybody knows this. True, there are polls, and studies, and elections that might suggest otherwise, but these can be safely ignored as liberally biased, since they cast doubt on the rock solid truth about America. Moving on… How then does one explain such unexpected results as the election of an Islamic atheist community agitator? Voter fraud. Can’t be anything else, the Dems are protecting vast hordes of illegal voters because they supply the votes necessary to overturn the Prime Truth. Republicans know this is true, but can’t prove it, because the cunning and treacherous Democrats have made such proof impossible. What is to be done,? It becomes necessary to fight fire with fire, Republicans are forced to use disagreeable tactics in order to attain the correct balance of voters, as defined by the Prime Truth. Certainly, infringing on the voter rights of the riff-raff…uh, the disadvantaged…infringing on their rights isn’t exactly the best civic procedure, but this is an emergency! Arrrooga! Arroooga! As soon as these laws are in place, then the truth will come out, and all can see how needful it was, how utterly crucial it was. We will be able to see how this sacrifice was necessary. And then, with the solid majority that is their right by virtue of the Prime Truth, _then_ the Republicans can do the sort of outreach that will assure the riff-raff…er, the disadvantaged…that voter ID is convenient and easily obtained. Certainly it will be a lot easier once the correct balance has been restored. Why, Democrat resistance to such outreach is so overwhelming and powerful, Republican legislators don’t even mention such efforts, knowing full well they will be shouted down and crushed beneath the power of Democrat minorities! But after the Great Cleansing, we can move forward, secure in our voter confidence and integrity, towards St. Ron’s Shining Citadel on the Hill! Connect the dot, people! Connect the dot! ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/869 "2012-07-03T18:30:55Z")
Further to references to Canadian voter ID requirements in this thread, [here are the actual Canadian requirements](http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e#one). Note that the requirements are very flexible, and require only proof of identity and not specific ID documents, with provisions for a number of cases, such as the homeless, who may not have formal ID documents. Other differences in Canada are a specific Constitutional right to vote and a federal election process which is controlled at the national level by a non-political agency (whose head and deputy head are the only adult Canadian citizens legally ineligable to vote). Voter registration and update is purposely made easy (most people likely do it by ticking a box on their income tax form) and can be done at any time including at the poll on election day, and is mostly for administrative purposes (voters are mailed a notification card with the location and dates of regular and early voting polls, and it is used for pre-printed voter lists which speed up the polling process). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/870 "2012-07-03T18:48:26Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan;15233331I like how you aren’t even pretending you’re not a slimy prick now. This is good. Too many people are taken in by your veneer of civility. You’re a rabid dog, Bricker.[/QUOTE] But…but…but… he’s so intelligent! I’m sure Shodan or Magellan will be along to kneel before him in homage any moment now. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/871 "2012-07-03T19:00:25Z")
And **december** was so _polite_! ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/872 "2012-07-03T19:10:06Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Further to references to Canadian voter ID requirements in this thread, [here are the actual Canadian requirements](http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e#one). Note that the requirements are very flexible, and require only proof of identity and not specific ID documents, with provisions for a number of cases, such as the homeless, who may not have formal ID documents. > > Other differences in Canada are a specific Constitutional right to vote and a federal election process which is controlled at the national level by a non-political agency (whose head and deputy head are the only adult Canadian citizens legally ineligable to vote). Voter registration and update is purposely made easy (most people likely do it by ticking a box on their income tax form) and can be done at any time including at the poll on election day, and is mostly for administrative purposes (voters are mailed a notification card with the location and dates of regular and early voting polls, and it is used for pre-printed voter lists which speed up the polling process). Huh. Why am I not surprised. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/873 "2012-07-03T20:24:28Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I think you mean isn’t. Wait, the Canadian system isnt working? > [@](#): > > None of those things are integral to the functionality of democracy. By preventing people from hitting the road without ID, you aren’t preventing them from being able to put their vote out for government. yet, impoverished seem to have ID to do these thing, but cant get ID to vote… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/874 "2012-07-03T20:32:04Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > I mean, gee wilikers, we only have to show ID to us our credit cards, buy a beer, cigarettes, drive, get a student discount at the movie theater… What credit card do you have that requires cardholders to carry ID? ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/875 "2012-07-03T22:45:59Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > What credit card do you have that requires cardholders to carry ID? I dont sign my card because if I lose it, they can then just sign like me. So retailers ask for my ID ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/876 "2012-07-03T22:49:28Z")
Did it ever occur to you that if you lose an unsigned card, the finder/thief can sign it himself and then his signature on the slip will be a very good match? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/877 "2012-07-03T22:54:24Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Further to references to Canadian voter ID requirements in this thread, [here are the actual Canadian requirements](http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e#one). Note that the requirements are very flexible, and require only proof of identity and not specific ID documents, with provisions for a number of cases, such as the homeless, who may not have formal ID documents. If only I had thought to post this information before, hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/878 "2012-07-03T22:58:53Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > What credit card do you have that requires cardholders to carry ID? I’ve been asked for ID when using a credit card before. It is rare, though. Rare enough that I can’t remember where, but I seem to vaguely recollect the grocery store. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/879 "2012-07-03T23:13:41Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > I dont sign my card because if I lose it, they can then just sign like me. So retailers ask for my ID Your card is invalid and retailers are not allowed to accept it. They also cannot require people who present valid credit cards (which, just to reiterate, yours is not) to show identification (unless any of the card companies have changed their rules very recently). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/880 "2012-07-03T23:34:53Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > It shouldn’t be harder to register to vote than to vote. Erecting barriers to make the process more difficult is a deliberate attempt to “keep out the riffraff”. > > That you don’t understand the day to day living conditions of people that live paycheck to almost paycheck is unsurprising. What’s the big deal if people not like you have more trouble getting to the DMV that you do? I grew up poor. Very poor. My father came here from El Salvador, with, literally, the shirt on his back. I am well aware of living in limited circumstances. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=45)