# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 446
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8901 "2016-03-24T10:25:47Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > [Arizona primary: Maricopa County had one polling site for every 21,000 voters](http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/03/22/live-arizona-primary-coverage-presidential-preference-election/82096726/) > > Much better way to suppress votes in Democratic areas - just don’t give 'em a place to vote or working voting machines. I suppose the two counties have roughly equal populations and budgets? I’m sure you wouldn’t post this otherwise. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8902 "2016-03-24T10:42:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I suppose the two counties have roughly equal populations and budgets? > > I’m sure you wouldn’t post this otherwise. Right? Dude, it’s a per capita comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8903 "2016-03-24T10:55:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I suppose the two counties have roughly equal populations and budgets? Someone doesn’t understand ratios. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8904 "2016-03-24T11:11:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Dude, it’s a per capita comparison. Dude, dude. Nothing in that article so much as hints at the available budgets for Maricopa and Pima counties, per capita or otherwise. Dude. Or did I miss it? Dude? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8905 "2016-03-24T11:12:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Someone doesn’t understand ratios. Someone doesn’t understand that heads don’t generate money. Tax base does. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8906 "2016-03-24T11:17:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nothing in that article so much as hints at the available budgets for Maricopa and Pima counties, per capita or otherwise. If the budget is inadequate to provide sufficient voter locations, that is deliberate. Budgets are a reflection of the priorities of local legislators. Maricopa County realizes their own voters are an existential threat, and budgeted accordingly. At least you are abandoning the population misdirection. Good. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8907 "2016-03-24T11:52:51Z")
I got this one, **Bricker**. > [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > [Arizona primary: Maricopa County had one polling site for every 21,000 voters](http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/03/22/live-arizona-primary-coverage-presidential-preference-election/82096726/) > > Much better way to suppress votes in Democratic areas - just don’t give 'em a place to vote or working voting machines. \ > > By now, it’s an old GOP trick. What a stupid thing to say, you do realize **all** voters, regardless of party affiliation, had to use the **same** available polling locations, don’t you? And Maricopa County **IS NOT** a Democratic area: 507,826 voters registered as Democrats (26%) 691,241 voters registered as Republicans (35%) [740,530 voters registered as Independents (38%) (not eligible to vote in the Presidential Preference Election which is solely for voters registered within a specific political party to specify their preference for a candidate of their political party for the Office of President.] So if the idea was to suppress Democratic votes, it is unfounded. If _anyone_ was likely to have their vote suppressed by the lack of polling places or not having enough ballots on hand, it was the Republicans by the tune of 183,415 (9%) more registered voters in Maricopa County than Democrats. Glad to have helped fought your ignorance, an apology is not necessary. (numbers from [pdf alert] [http://apps.azsos.gov/election/voterreg/2016-01-01.pdf](http://apps.azsos.gov/election/voterreg/2016-01-01.pdf)) I too hope there are more polling locations available on the next Election Day. Maybe this experience will cause people sign up to vote by mail or vote at the early voting locations. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8908 "2016-03-24T11:55:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Am I wrong? Yes. Write on the blackboard fifty times: \*This thread is about GOP vote-suppression. This thread is about GOP vote-suppression. This thread is about GOP vote-suppression. This thread is about GOP vote-suppression. This thread is about GOP vote-suppression. \* Contrivances in voter ID laws is just _one of many_ nefarious means to the pernicious end. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8909 "2016-03-24T12:06:33Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If the budget is inadequate to provide sufficient voter locations, that is deliberate. Budgets are a reflection of the priorities of local legislators. Maricopa County realizes their own voters are an existential threat, and budgeted accordingly. The voters can replace their legislators at any election with other legislators who can cut public libraries and after-school care to provide chauffeured limos from door to door for voting any time they please. > [@](#): > > At least you are abandoning the population misdirection. Good. Do you believe that a linear function or a step function better describes the relationship between the number of voters and the number of polling places? Here’s a hint: 1 voter — 1 polling place 2 voters — 1 polling place 3 voters — 1 polling place 4 voters — 1 polling place . . . 2998 voters — 1 polling place 2999 voters — 1 polling place 3000 voters — 2 polling places 3001 voters ---- 2 polling places Do you think that maybe total population, economies of scale, and absolute size of tax base has anything to do with this discussion? Anything at all? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8910 "2016-03-24T12:08:26Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > I got this one, **Bricker**. Don’t think I don’t appreciate the effort. But you won’t see anyone acknowledge their error. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8911 "2016-03-24T12:26:38Z")
Well, I didn’t make the argument that the Maricopa County actions were intended to suppress Democratic voters, so I’ve got nothing to apologize for. Nevertheless, it seems incredibly stupid, no matter how you look at it. Especially so if Maricopa is a Republican stronghold (it’s where Sheriff Joe Arpaio is from). Although Phoenix, which is in the county, tends to go Democratic, I understand. In any event, reducing the number of polling places by 70% since 2012, especially during such a contentious race, seems truly absurd. Lots of voters in the county were crying “suppression”: > **[Maricopa County Recorder Helen Purcell takes blame for voter lines, says she...](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/03/23/maricopa-county-recorder-helen-purcell-admits-fault-long-primary-lines/82165730/)** > > Maricopa County Recorder Helen Purcell has admitted fault for the long lines at polls Tuesday that enraged primary voters, but says she won't resign. county Recorderr Helen Purcell says it’s her fault, but that she had good reasons for her actions, and she’s not resigning. This needs a closer look to understand what’s going on. There is certainly something peculiar here. In any event, there are other things going on in Arizona that suggest monkeying with the vote: [http://usuncut.com/politics/5-examples-voter-suppression-arizona-primary/](http://usuncut.com/politics/5-examples-voter-suppression-arizona-primary/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8912 "2016-03-24T12:40:49Z")
> [@](#): > > “I Called the Arizona Democratic Party office around 1 PM, and I said, ‘Something is not right here.’ They said someone would call me back, and nobody called me back,” Thornton said. “This is the exact same thing that voters have been experiencing in Pima and Maricopa County all day.” Man, those GOP Vote Suppressors are EVERWHERE. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8913 "2016-03-24T12:42:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Do you think that maybe total population, economies of scale, and absolute size of tax base has anything to do with this discussion? Anything at all? No. None. Not at all. 1:21000 is indefensible. There is no excuse for forcing voters to stand in line for 5 hours. Any county that cannot or will not provide for an efficient voting process that enables the largest number of voters to participate in the election is guilty of malfeasance. You should be ashamed for trying to hide that behind meaningless statistical obfuscation. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8914 "2016-03-24T12:57:44Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > I got this one, **Bricker**. > What a stupid thing to say, you do realize **all** voters, regardless of party affiliation, had to use the **same** available polling locations, don’t you? > > And Maricopa County **IS NOT** a Democratic area: > 507,826 voters registered as Democrats (26%) > 691,241 voters registered as Republicans (35%) > [740,530 voters registered as Independents (38%) (not eligible to vote in the Presidential Preference Election which is solely for voters registered within a specific political party to specify their preference for a candidate of their political party for the Office of President.] > > So if the idea was to suppress Democratic votes, it is unfounded. If _anyone_ was likely to have their vote suppressed by the lack of polling places or not having enough ballots on hand, it was the Republicans by the tune of 183,415 (9%) more registered voters in Maricopa County than Democrats. > > Glad to have helped fought your ignorance, an apology is not necessary. > > (numbers from [pdf alert] [http://apps.azsos.gov/election/voterreg/2016-01-01.pdf](http://apps.azsos.gov/election/voterreg/2016-01-01.pdf)) > > I too hope there are more polling locations available on the next Election Day. Maybe this experience will cause people sign up to vote by mail or vote at the early voting locations. Help me out here. You do understand that it would be possible to put the 60 polling locations in Maricopa county in disproportionately republican areas, right? I’m not saying that happened, because I don’t have any information that cites that, but what you’re saying here isn’t the slam dunk you think it is. Your argument seems to suggest that the county is homogeneous, which is probably not the case. It might be as simple as putting a bunch of polling locations in geographically disparate rural areas, and a few in highly populated urban areas. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8915 "2016-03-24T13:04:32Z")
[Says Maricopa County Recorder Helen Purcell:](https://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/watch-az-recorder-refuses-to-take-blame-for-5-hour-waits-after-cutting-polling-places-from-200-to-60/) > [@](#): > > “Just to start, obviously you’ve heard of all the frustration. Who is to blame for this, these long lines?” Purcell was asked. > > “Well, the voters for getting in line, maybe us for not having enough voting places,” she replied. Yes, it’s the voters’ fault for wanting to vote. They don’t even bother to pretend anymore, do they? ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8916 "2016-03-24T14:14:36Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Help me out here. You do understand that it would be possible to put the 60 polling locations in Maricopa county in disproportionately republican areas, right? I’m not saying that happened, because I don’t have any information that cites that, but what you’re saying here isn’t the slam dunk you think it is. > > Your argument seems to suggest that the county is homogeneous, which is probably not the case. > > It might be as simple as putting a bunch of polling locations in geographically disparate rural areas, and a few in highly populated urban areas. I’ll help you out: you say “_You do understand that it would be possible …_” and “_I’m not saying that happened, because I don’t have any information that cites that …_” and “_…which is probably not the case._” so my help to _you_ is to suggest **you** do the homework and find the information/cites that backs up **your** “_possibles_” and "_probably nots._” It’s the **Pit** , not **Great Debates** , so you don’t have to support your argument but I’m not going to to it for you. Do you know Maricopa County and the Phoenix Metro Area? Maricopa County consists of lots of desert & farmland & the **Phoenix Metro Area**. While I’ve never lived there, I have been there numerous times (family visits & business trips) and am familiar with it. Here’s [a link to](http://recorder.maricopa.gov/pollingplace/) where polling locations were in Maricopa County. I know enough to recognize the majority of locations are in the cities of the Phoenix Metro Area (the population center) and on the main streets. So if you want to come back with details of polling locations in disproportionately Republican area or that a bunch of polling locations were in geographically disparate rural areas, I’ll look at it and if it is factual, I will admit it. Also, voting by mail and going to early voting locations were options. I recognize there were not enough polling places in Maricopa County but it wasn’t a ploy to discourage Democratic voters, it affected **all** voters. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8917 "2016-03-24T15:37:33Z")
Simply because an idea is stupid and malicious doesn’t make it a Republican plan. The whole voter ID mess is because of a plan that is malicious but very clever, well crafted to sell. This thing is just brain-dead dumb. About the only way I could see this as comparable to the whole voter ID thing is suppressing turnout _across the board_, figuring that Republican voters will go to the polls regardless but Dems may not. Pretty weak. Remember, the original voter ID scam as cooked up by the evil wizards of ALEC wasn’t on this grand a scale, it was designed not to prevent Dem voting, but making it a bit more difficult, thereby shaving a couple of points or so off the Dem voting. Enough to win the close ones in carefully gerrymandered districts. That’s a _smar_t malicious plan. This thing is so stupid its hard to see that it has any design at all, much less a malign one. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8918 "2016-03-24T19:15:39Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > I’ll help you out: you say “_You do understand that it would be possible …_” and “_I’m not saying that happened, because I don’t have any information that cites that …_” and “_…which is probably not the case._” so my help to _you_ is to suggest **you** do the homework and find the information/cites that backs up **your** “_possibles_” and "_probably nots._” It’s the **Pit** , not **Great Debates** , so you don’t have to support your argument but I’m not going to to it for you. > > Do you know Maricopa County and the Phoenix Metro Area? Maricopa County consists of lots of desert & farmland & the **Phoenix Metro Area**. While I’ve never lived there, I have been there numerous times (family visits & business trips) and am familiar with it. Here’s [a link to](http://recorder.maricopa.gov/pollingplace/) where polling locations were in Maricopa County. I know enough to recognize the majority of locations are in the cities of the Phoenix Metro Area (the population center) and on the main streets. > > So if you want to come back with details of polling locations in disproportionately Republican area or that a bunch of polling locations were in geographically disparate rural areas, I’ll look at it and if it is factual, I will admit it. > > Also, voting by mail and going to early voting locations were options. > > I recognize there were not enough polling places in Maricopa County but it wasn’t a ploy to discourage Democratic voters, it affected **all** voters. Again, I’m just saying that your smug post was embarrassingly stupid, because you didn’t consider that the county wasn’t uniformly GOP. Your central concept, that you thought was a slam-dunk, wasn’t what you thought it was. I saw that list of 60 polling places. As I said, I don’t know that the assignment of polling places is disproportionate, and neither do you. And your “point” in your post depends on that not being the case. So, you fucking dipshit, maybe you should check that out before acting like you’re teaching someone remedial math? In other words, you strutted in like a baus, and you had toilet paper trailing from your shoe. Just think before you cockily intone, “I got this one, Bricker.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8919 "2016-03-24T19:16:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Don’t think I don’t appreciate the effort. > > But you won’t see anyone acknowledge their error. One wonders if Bricker will point out that Fred’s point was inept. One does wonder. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/8920 "2016-03-24T19:57:19Z")
Maybe missing something here, **Lobo** , but I’m not seeing it. We can easily set a default position of totally dumb pooch-screwing without needing any malign intent. Maybe they just totally fucked up. Shouldn’t prove to be too hard to unearth some stats to flesh out the plot, sure bet somebody has. If the polling places were chosen to disadvantage Dem voters, that won’t be too hard to illustrate, and somebody would have done the research by now. After all, the Pubbies would have needed to know that to cook their scheme. So, has anybody done that? I don’t need a whole lot of proof to start seeing a dastardly plot, but gonna need _some_. You got it, you brought it, and I missed it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=445) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=447)