# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/881 "2012-07-03T23:36:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wildly exaggerating a real problem into an absurdity does not a valid case make, Counselor. Pretty sure you know that, they probably touched on that in law school. Pot, meet kettle. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/882 "2012-07-04T00:43:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > When did “insurmountable” become your standard, **Uzi**? Getting an ID isn’t insurmountable, though. And for those few, I agree that the government should help them overcome whatever their issues are because ID isn’t just used for voting, it is helpful in many other areas. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/883 "2012-07-04T01:26:41Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > That you don’t understand the day to day living conditions of people that live paycheck to almost paycheck is unsurprising. Really? When I was going to school (at age 30, btw) I could only afford one meal a day. I couldn’t afford the bus even with a student pass except on special occasions and walked the 5 miles. Just before I left home, we lived in a place where the running water was a 100 yards away and the electricity came from a generator (which pumped the water) that we only were able to run a couple hours a day. My dad was a drunk and that was the end of the road for our family. It is because I have been poor that I know that these are just excuses. Do I have sympathy for those in similar circumstances? Damn right I do. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/884 "2012-07-04T01:33:08Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Did it ever occur to you that if you lose an unsigned card, the finder/thief can sign it himself and then his signature on the slip will be a very good match? 😃 I think I could head the forehead smack from here. That’s some sharp thinking right there. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/885 "2012-07-04T01:36:04Z")
Conservatives go through hard times and say, “I had it rough, so everyone else should too.” Other people go through hard times and say, “I had it rough. Nobody else should have to go through that.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/886 "2012-07-04T04:18:38Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Getting an ID isn’t insurmountable, though. And for those few, I agree that the government should help them overcome whatever their issues are because ID isn’t just used for voting, it is helpful in many other areas. Well, OK, see any such effort on the part of the people writing these laws? Here, I’ll help you with that, no. No you didn’t. Wonder why? I’m pretty sure I know why, maybe you’ve got a better answer. All ears. Bated breath. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/887 "2012-07-04T06:44:30Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Wait, the Canadian system isnt working? No, you simply used the wrong word. Otherwise I’d be agreeing with you, and you’d be saying something completely different. > [@](#): > > yet, impoverished seem to have ID to do these thing, but cant get ID to vote… Yes, and a Driver’s License is generally valid ID for voting as well. But what of the 10% who _doesn’t_? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/888 "2012-07-04T06:57:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I grew up poor. Very poor. My father came here from El Salvador, with, literally, the shirt on his back. > > I am well aware of living in limited circumstances. So educate me. What did it take for your voting family members to register to vote and illustrate for us how more stringent requirements would not have cost them anything to comply with. BTW, have you considered that not all limited living circumstances have the same limitations? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/889 "2012-07-04T06:58:29Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Really? When I was going to school (at age 30, btw) I could only afford one meal a day. I couldn’t afford the bus even with a student pass except on special occasions and walked the 5 miles. > > Just before I left home, we lived in a place where the running water was a 100 yards away and the electricity came from a generator (which pumped the water) that we only were able to run a couple hours a day. My dad was a drunk and that was the end of the road for our family. > > It is because I have been poor that I know that these are just excuses. Do I have sympathy for those in similar circumstances? Damn right I do. So how did voter registration work for you and your family? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/890 "2012-07-04T09:43:39Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > … stringent requirements would not have cost them anything to comply with. I’ll answer here if that is okay. Voting by itself costs me something to comply. At the least, I have to get off my ass rather than watching some stupid show on TV. > [@](#): > > BTW, have you considered that not all limited living circumstances have the same limitations? Ya think? No one is denying this. For some people it will be very difficult to get an ID. For some it may potentially not be possible at all. Are you going to allow just anyone to rock up to the voting booth and cast a vote because they claim is was too difficult to get an ID? You don’t know why they don’t have an ID. You assume it is because of some hardship reason. Similar numbers of people claim that the weather caused them not to vote. Is that the real reason that they didn’t vote? Or is that just what they are telling you rather than the real reason which may be they couldn’t be bothered? “I couldn’t vote because I don’t have an ID.” The question is why not? Because you can’t get one, or you can’t be bothered to get one? Because you believe the Men In Black will track you if you have one? Because it is against your crackpot religion? Because you’d have to talk to your parents to get your birth certificate and don’t want to? All sorts of reasons and excuses as to why not. A whole bunch of people claim they can’t vote because they were ‘busy’. You buy that excuse? Some small minority probably are. Most aren’t. If this applies or you are out of the country during the actual vote, they give you the opportunity to pre-vote. If you can’t make that then guess what? You’re shit out of luck, Sunshine. Vote next time. It isn’t up to the government to ‘fix’ all your problems. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/891 "2012-07-04T10:28:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > infringing on the voter rights of the riff-raff. No, the stupid lazy retards actually. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > But…but…but… he’s so intelligent! If there’s one small blessing, he’s not proudly proclaiming membership in club 17% and cultural Marxism. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/892 "2012-07-04T10:58:03Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Ya think? No one is denying this. For some people it will be very difficult to get an ID. For some it may potentially not be possible at all. Are you going to allow just anyone to rock up to the voting booth and cast a vote because they claim is was too difficult to get an ID? > > \*\*You don’t know why they don’t have an ID. \*\*You assume it is because of some hardship reason. Similar numbers of people claim that the weather caused them not to vote. Is that the real reason that they didn’t vote? Or is that just what they are telling you rather than the real reason which may be they couldn’t be bothered? > > “I couldn’t vote because I don’t have an ID.” The question is why not? Because you can’t get one, or you can’t be bothered to get one? Because you believe the Men In Black will track you if you have one? Because it is against your crackpot religion? Because you’d have to talk to your parents to get your birth certificate and don’t want to? All sorts of reasons and excuses as to why not. > > A whole bunch of people claim they can’t vote because they were ‘busy’. You buy that excuse? Some small minority probably are. Most aren’t. If this applies or you are out of the country during the actual vote, they give you the opportunity to pre-vote. If you can’t make that then guess what? You’re shit out of luck, Sunshine. Vote next time. In other words, nobody knows why these people don’t have IDs except you, who defaults to the “they’re all stupid, lazy retards” reason in pretty much every post. Good to know you’ve got it all figured out. > [@](#): > > It isn’t up to the government to ‘fix’ all your problems. It is, however, up to the government to fix problems caused by the government. Of which this is one. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/893 "2012-07-04T12:17:19Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > In other words, nobody knows why these people don’t have IDs except you, who defaults to the “they’re all stupid, lazy retards” reason in pretty much every post. Good to know you’ve got it all figured out. Better than the naive people in this thread who think that they can’t because of imaginary reasons. Or think that someone can’t fix a problem in a 4 year time span. That is ridiculous. > [@](#): > > It is, however, up to the government to fix problems caused by the government. Of which this is one. What planet do you live on that you think this is true? The government causes all sorts of problems with laws that it is responsible for. The war on drugs is one little example. A couple million people in jail, many due to drug offences, that can’t vote because of it. And you worry about the few who can’t follow through on getting an ID? Really, to this outsider looking in you guys are fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/894 "2012-07-04T15:59:40Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Better than the naive people in this thread who think that they can’t because of imaginary reasons. Or think that someone can’t fix a problem in a 4 year time span. That is ridiculous. Nitpick: These new laws largely came in with the Tea Party wave of 2010. So it would be two years, not four. This is a small point, but given the vapid nonsense you’re spewing, I thought we could at least get some of your facts straight. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/895 "2012-07-04T16:30:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I grew up poor. Very poor. My father came here from El Salvador, with, literally, the shirt on his back. > > I am well aware of living in limited circumstances. As usual, \*\*Bricker \*\*cannot be counted upon to honestly tell the whole story, as \*\*Mapache \*\*showed [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13576963): > [@](#): > > [Quote=Bricker] > > Yes, because the leftists were so great for our people, weren’t they? Viva la Frente Farabundo Martí para la Liberación, verdad?? I have been considering the thought for some time now that Bricker and his father were supporters of the death squads in el Salvador, because I know from experience (trying to sponsor for immigration a couple of pilots I knew from my flying days whose lives, and the lives of their families had been threatened) that if you weren’t a death squad supporter you were sent back to El Salvador, usually to be tortured and killed. Bricker claims to be a good Catholic. Bricker supports Arena. Arena, founded by Robert d’Abuisson ( known as"Major Blowtorch" after his favorite instrument of torture)(.www.enotes.com/genocide-encyclopedia/el-salvador) . From this site "Roberto D’Aubuisson, a cashiered National Guard officer, was a key figure in death squad violence. According to the U.S. Embassy in San Salvador, one of his most notorious crimes was overseeing the drawing of lots for the “privilege” of assassinating Archbishop Romero. d’Abiusson’s motto, displayed on posters and wall hangings popular with the Salvadoran elite, was "Sirve a la Patria, mata un sacerdote. (“Serve the country, kill a priest”). And kill they did. 60,000 “rebels”, mostly peasants and high school students, six Jesuit priests and their houskeeper and her daughter, four middleaged American nuns who were dragged out of their VW microbus, stripped, raped and murdered and their bodies left beside the highway, and Archbishop Arnulfo Romera, murdered while saying mass in San Salvador. Those are the swine you support, Bricker. 'Splains a lot. [/quote] It does indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/896 "2012-07-04T16:38:53Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > So educate me. What did it take for your voting family members to register to vote and illustrate for us how more stringent requirements would not have cost them anything to comply with. Both my parents had driver’s licenses. There were times we didn’t have a working car, but they needed something to get to work – two jobs, interestingly enough – that putting money into a crappy car that ran made sense. So they both had photo IDs, and when naturalized, that was all that he needed to vote. > [@](#): > > BTW, have you considered that not all limited living circumstances have the same limitations? Sure. But none of the restrictions in place in any state are so onerous as to constitute disenfranchisement for anyone’s circumstances. No matter how limited. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/897 "2012-07-04T16:42:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I grew up poor. Very poor. My father came here from El Salvador, with, literally, the shirt on his back. > > I am well aware of living in limited circumstances. I actually grew up in poverty. Endemic poverty. My mother was poor her whole life, her mother as well, and her parents came from the Philippines and worked a rice plantation. Endemic generational poverty is different from an ambitious guy who risks everything and seeks his fortune in a new country. You obviously were able to go to a good school for your primary education and afford college. So you really didn’t have to live with the level of poverty that an inner-city child does for any significant level of time. Couple that with the fact that it’s a lot harder to afford college now, than when you went, and you don’t appear to have a good case for you being an example of why anyone can do it. Luck and hard work are required to get out of poverty. Your dad did it, and some dads might not. In fact, many don’t have dads at all. I only got out because I fell in love with a middle-class girl who taught me how to think without the defeatism and hopelessness of the poor. When I go back home I can still see that mindset in my brothers. In any case, the point being, being poor means you struggle. A lot of times it means you’re ignorant. You might not have a day to spend at the DMV. If you were struggling, and I told you you needed to spend 5 hours waiting in line so you can vote six months from now, do you think it might incentivise some percentage to not do it? How about if you’re ignorant? Can’t use the internet. Don’t have any idea where to go to get a new birth certificate. No idea which documents you need to get an ID. No idea where to find out that information. The evil beauty of this law, is that it appears to casual viewers as something simple and useful. But in actuality it keeps the _right people_ from voting. The point isn’t if it’s possible. As I say, if I put your refrigerator in your attic, you’d eat less. You \*can \*eat. But it will act as an incentive to go there less often. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/898 "2012-07-04T16:46:34Z")
> [@](#): > > …But none of the restrictions in place in any state are so onerous as to constitute disenfranchisement for anyone’s circumstances. No matter how limited. We covered this. One more time, then? No, it does not equate exactly to “disenfranchise”, it introduces extra barriers to voting, but does not forbid voting. And smallpox is worse than dysentery, but that does not make dysentery desirable. Let me know if you are still having trouble hacking your way through the dense jungle of my verbiage, I’ll try and break it down further. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/899 "2012-07-04T16:51:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure. But none of the restrictions in place in any state are so onerous as to constitute disenfranchisement for anyone’s circumstances. No matter how limited. But a law which incentivises more people to not vote, than it would keep from voting fraudulently, is that a good law? It sounds like a stupid law. It sounds like a law that does the opposite of what it intends to. It sounds like the sort of law people should try to change, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/900 "2012-07-04T17:38:42Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > But a law which incentivises more people to not vote, than it would keep from voting fraudulently, is that a good law? > > It sounds like a stupid law. It sounds like a law that does the opposite of what it intends to. It sounds like the sort of law people should try to change, doesn’t it? No, it sounds like a great law. Because it’s a law that does more than simply “incentivises [sic] more people to not vote.” It also creates a framework by which more confidence may be had in the validity of election outcomes. It means that we, the people, can repose more trust in the outcome of elections than we could before. So that sounds like a great law. A law worth keeping. A law that people should protect, and be glad exists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=46)