# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 466
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9301 "2016-04-18T22:13:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m stunned by your casual acceptance that a man born with the name “Johnnie Marton Randall,” can simply decide that his name should be “Johnny Martin Randle,” and require that government agencies bow to his will. > > Everyone else in the free world has to get a name change through the courts, but Randall, according to you, can simply show up and announce his true name. Well, I have never met Mr. Randle/Randall. But my guess, as far and away the simplest explanation for what’s going on, is that he’s spent his entire life as a presumably productive member of society believing that his name is one thing, spelled one way, because that’s what his parents told him, and that’s what showed up on every document he’s ever seen, every piece of paperwork he’s ever filled out, etc, etc, etc. If there was fault, it was very likely either with his parents (who as I said may have been semi-literate at best) or with whoever filled out whatever form got turned into a birth certificate in the first place. Describing this situation as just some guy randomly wanting to change his name without going through a legal name change is just nonsensical. I’m sure there will be a case at some point where some person born “Fred Smith” really really wants to be known as “Sparkle Unicorn Happiness”, and wants to register to vote under that name, and in a situation like that, reasonable people can disagree as to what should happen. But a 76-year-old who has (again, assuming my guess is correct) spent his entire life using a name that turns out to be different, but obviously not deceptively different, from what was printed on his birth certificate, and quite possibly never seen by any human eye since then, is in no way at all comparable. But to a certain extent, you’re moving the goalposts here. We were discussing the level of burden this law would create. And here’s a case where a significant burden is created, but it doesn’t count, because it’s his own fault that that burden is there. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9302 "2016-04-18T23:03:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hey, septimus, let me ask this: If SCOTUS or a state supreme court renders a decision you don’t like and/or you feel is incompatible with the principles of the relevant federal or state constitution as you understand them, is your preferred response (if possible) to abolish that court and substitute your judgement for theirs? I’ve no idea why you’re asking me this question — Brickhead is the one who focuses on legalistics. Have I discussed Constitutional authority anywhere in the thread (discounting any parenthetical comments intended only to ridicule Brickhead)? Nor do I even understand the question. Are you asking if I wish I were some dictator or magician or assassin who could eliminate Justices or rulings of which I disapprove? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9303 "2016-04-18T23:11:58Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > You think Antonin Scalia was a moron? > > #yourenothelping He was a colossal prick though, right? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9304 "2016-04-18T23:33:59Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > He was a colossal prick though, right? He certainly could be, at times! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9305 "2016-04-19T00:17:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **Bricker** : > > I think it’s pretty unreasonable for you to claim that “It’s unconstitutional” = “I want to change the law by fiat”, even if there is a standing decision of constitutionality by the SCOTUS. Unless the poster has proposed a specific, extra-judicial or extra-legislative method for voiding the law, the most reasonable interpretation is that the poster is simply voicing his opinion about disagreeing with the court. Is it? The problem with that view is that English already has words to convey that precise sentiment. “I disagree with the Court’s reasoning.” Or “I disagree with the Court’s result.” > [@](#): > > On the matter of **septimus** ’ post, you are absolutely correct in calling him on his claim that you, or any of us posting here, would interpret the constitution in such a way as to ignore the 13th and 14th amendments. That was just silly on his part. However, it does appear that you are making a leap when you claim that his post shows a lack of understanding of how the 3/5 rule got into the original constitution. If I had to guess, I would guess that he does know the history, as do most regular posters around these parts. Either way, that one little snippet is hardly definitive in terms of what his understanding is. Here it is: > [@septimus](#): > > What an insulting and despicable way to speak of a fellow American (albeit 3/5 of an American in your hyper-Constitutional view). In your best assessment, is he suggesting that 3/5 of an American is a bad thing because it’s not a whole American, and it should be a whole American? That is certainly what the tone says to me. You don’t agree? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9306 "2016-04-19T00:53:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is it? > > The problem with that view is that English already has words to convey that precise sentiment. > > “I disagree with the Court’s reasoning.” > > Or “I disagree with the Court’s result.” People use English in a wide variety of ways, often not the most logical of ways. > [@](#): > > Here it is: > In your best assessment, is he suggesting that 3/5 of an American is a bad thing because it’s not a whole American, and it should be a whole American? > > That is certainly what the tone says to me. You don’t agree? Yep, it’s said as a bad thing. Just because it could have been better, doesn’t mean it still wasn’t a bad thing. But just to be clear, I’m not really interested in arguing the point. I’m just trying to give you some insight as an observer. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9307 "2016-04-19T00:56:24Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’ve no idea why you’re asking me this question — Brickhead is the one who focuses on legalistics. Have I discussed Constitutional authority anywhere in the thread (discounting any parenthetical comments intended only to ridicule Brickhead)? Nor do I even understand the question. Are you asking if I wish I were some dictator or magician or assassin who could eliminate Justices or rulings of which I disapprove? Ummmmm… tentative “no”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9308 "2016-04-19T00:56:38Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > But to a certain extent, you’re moving the goalposts here. We were discussing the level of burden this law would create. And here’s a case where a significant burden is created, but it doesn’t count, because it’s his own fault that that burden is there. Not exactly. It doesn’t count because it’s the kind of outlier set of circumstances that society is prepared to accept. You might discover a fifteen year old who is mature, intelligent, and capable of understanding short- and long-term consequences, but we do not tear down the legal structures that prohibit her from signing enforceable contracts. We do allow her to petition the court for a legal emancipation, however. In like manner, we don’t tear down a perfectly acceptable ID structure because a guy never realized how his name was spelled. We allow him to file a name change with the court to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9309 "2016-04-19T00:58:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The problem with that view is that English already has words to convey that precise sentiment. > > “I disagree with the Court’s reasoning.” > > Or “I disagree with the Court’s result.” What are you, the Boss of English? And just a few posts ago you were claiming special consideration for having a Spanish-speaking parent. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9310 "2016-04-19T01:00:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It doesn’t count because it’s the kind of outlier set of circumstances that society is prepared to accept. So if an election with 9000 votes we can infer 3 are fraudulent, how many outlier set of circumstances can we infer? I vote… 8. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9311 "2016-04-19T01:01:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > People use English in a wide variety of ways, often not the most logical of ways. Gosh, John, it sure seems to me that I am leapt upon by a metaphorical pack of rabid jackals when I say something that fails a logic test. It’s funny that my postings are required to be a model of logical probity, and if not earn criticism and spawn (non-literal) foaming mouths from my interlocutors. It’s almost as though observers such as yourself are saying, “Well, yes, we know **septimus** is sub-normal, so we expect little from him, but you, Bricker, have no such disability.” Is that what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9312 "2016-04-19T01:03:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So if an election with 9000 votes we can infer 3 are fraudulent, how many outlier set of circumstances can we infer? > > I vote… 8. You have no vote in this matter. Thankfully. Indeed, even if you were a citizen, your “vote,” on the issue is not exercised directly, but via the election of leaders who share your view. In a democratic republic, see, that’s how it works. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9313 "2016-04-19T01:05:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What are you, the Boss of English? And just a few posts ago you were claiming special consideration for having a Spanish-speaking parent. All the more reason my studies of English were so assiduous. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9314 "2016-04-19T01:16:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You have no vote in this matter. Of course I do, it’s my hypothetical. And without countervotes, 8 is now leading. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9315 "2016-04-19T01:32:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > All the more reason my studies of English were so assiduous. Oh, Bricker, you don’t have to be ashamed of your heritage. Your heritage is already thoroughly ashamed of _you_. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9316 "2016-04-19T01:58:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Of course I do, it’s my hypothetical. > > And without countervotes, 8 is now leading. Oh, well, I concede without reservation your compete authority over your hypothetical. All people in your hypothetical world can vote eight times each for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9317 "2016-04-19T02:02:59Z")
In that case, the tally is 8 disenfranchised citizens to 3 blocked fraud attempts. The policy is inferred as a failure, as is Bricker (morally, ethically and intellectually) for supporting it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9318 "2016-04-19T02:22:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > In that case, the tally is 8 disenfranchised citizens to 3 blocked fraud attempts. The policy is inferred as a failure, as is Bricker (morally, ethically and intellectually) for supporting it. In your hypothetical world, it’s a failure. No shock there, because as you stridently reminded me, you control your own hypothetical – so the fate of the policy in your fantasy world was never in real doubt. Now having won against your own creation, you are welcome to continue to glory in your glorious victory. Perhaps you can occasionally return from your break with reality to ponder the real world, in which Voter ID laws him happily along in full force and effect. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9319 "2016-04-19T02:27:08Z")
Oh, your country has always had my sympathy for occasionally succumbing to its self-destructive impulses. I do my part by reminding sane Americans that sanity still exists elsewhere, which I hope gives them hope. You play a role, too: _massive cautionary example._ ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9320 "2016-04-19T02:43:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Oh, your country has always had my sympathy for occasionally succumbing to its self-destructive impulses. I do my part by reminding sane Americans that sanity still exists elsewhere, which I hope gives them hope. > > You play a role, too: _massive cautionary example._ I kind of fantasized that this was _my_ job here, but since you’ve been here more than 15 years longer than me, you’re obviously going to continue to be in charge of this initiative, curse you. Just think of me as a kind of loyal canine sidekick, always willing to lend a helping paw, or at least enthusiastically wagging its tail when you post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=465) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=467)