# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 479
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9561 "2016-05-27T05:07:38Z")
I hope our Esquire shows up and gives his reaction to the vote-suppressing Wisconsin clerk **ElvisL1ves** cites. Until he does, should we play a game — _Who can predict **Brickbrains** ’ response?_ I’m torn between - - “That clerk was chosen in a constitutional democratic process and is acting within her authority. _Hippo-Krits v. D-Sen-C 399 U.S. 261 (1991)_. Democracy works! Your side lost, ha ha. Get over it.” - - " ::whine:: If that clerk were instead a Democrat who wanted to castrate heterosexuals you’d be fellating yourselves defending her. Because Republicans. Your side lost, ha ha." Anyone else want to play? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9562 "2016-05-27T05:29:04Z")
“Where in the constitution are long lines prohibited? Is this one of those rights that the courts have interpreted belongs to the people? Exact case cite and reference?” “You have the right to a speedy trial, but not to a speedy vote.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9563 "2016-05-27T10:35:12Z")
Call it **Steve MB** ’s link instead, if you want an answer. Yes, he’s that petty. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9564 "2016-05-27T14:09:49Z")
“Already said that some Republicans have malign motives in all of this, just turns out they all live in Wisconsin. Which is mostly a “blue” state. So there you have it: liberal hypocrisy!” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9565 "2016-05-29T17:22:40Z")
I’m bumping this thread because I really do want **Bricker, Esq.** to explain why inhibiting access to the polls is the responsible democratic thing to do. Recall that Ms. Novack was not trying to save taxpayer dollars — her goal was simply to make it harder for lower classes to vote. Is there a limit on entries to the contest for who comes closest to **Bricker** ’s decree, when he finally condescends to enlighten us? If not, I’ll submit another: “Since rural voters live further from polling stations on average, it is only fair to place artifical obstacles on urban voters to even things out. Your side loses; ha ha!” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9566 "2016-05-29T17:56:56Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I hope our Esquire shows up and gives his reaction to the vote-suppressing Wisconsin clerk **ElvisL1ves** cites. Until he does, should we play a game — _Who can predict **Brickbrains** ’ response?_ I’m torn between > > - > - “That clerk was chosen in a constitutional democratic process and is acting within her authority. _Hippo-Krits v. D-Sen-C 399 U.S. 261 (1991)_. Democracy works! Your side lost, ha ha. Get over it.” > > - > - " ::whine:: If that clerk were instead a Democrat who wanted to castrate heterosexuals you’d be fellating yourselves defending her. Because Republicans. Your side lost, ha ha." > > Anyone else want to play? Repost it and I’ll comment on it. I ignore all posts by ElvisL1ves. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9567 "2016-05-29T18:15:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Repost it and I’ll comment on it. I ignore all posts by ElvisL1ves. Testing, testing. Can Bricker see this. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9568 "2016-05-29T19:47:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Call it **Steve MB** ’s link instead, if you want an answer. Yes, he’s that petty. See? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9569 "2016-05-30T06:34:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Repost it and I’ll comment on it. I ignore all posts by ElvisL1ves. > **[Wisconsin county clerk objects to weekend voting because it gives urban areas...](https://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/wisconsin-county-clerk-objects-to-weekend-voting-because-it-gives-urban-areas-too-much-access/)** > > A Wisconsin county clerk testified in federal court this week that weekend voting should be eliminated because it gave urban areas "too much access" to the polls.In a hearing on Tuesday, Republican Waukesha County clerk Kathleen Novack spoke in favor... Reposition the oval shaped object next to your computer until a finger appears on the line above; then press the left-button. There’s another procedure for viewing Ignored posts, but let’s start you out with simpler stuff. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9570 "2016-05-30T14:50:34Z")
In a rare burst of candor, he accepted that “some” Republicans have malign motives in all of this. So, really, all that is actually _required_ is a shrug and a “asked and answered”. Truth of the matter is closer to a nationwide effort, led by ALEC. At the time, it was a shrewd adventure in _realpolitik_, to trim off just enough Dem votes to slide some more Republicans into office. But events have overtaken it, it kinda depended on not being a big hairy ass deal. They didn’t mean to “disenfranchise” masses of voters, just enough to gain a percentage point or two. It was a sophisticated and smart effort until the nutbars got a hold of it, and decided to try and “run the table”, they got greedy, and attracted too much attention. Still, for the most part, they got away with it. 'Course, with late events, and the rise of Trump, history has given it the avalanche treatment, a percentage point or two isn’t likely to help much. And it was never that great an idea to begin with, it was only effective (in its original dastardly configuration) in purplish states, where the balance point was close. But even in those places, sooner or later, a Dem administration was bound to occur, and nearly certain to reverse all of this. Penny wise, pound foolish. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9571 "2016-05-30T16:36:44Z")
Well, yes, but I wanted his reaction to the claim that long lines prove access _isn’t_ impaired. I wonder if part of the problem is that **Esquire** ’s career is based on convincing 12 average Americans of something: If you want to be horrified recall that most of the right-wingers posting at SDMB are actually smarter than an average American. :eek: Maybe doggerel poetry is all that’s necessary to win a jury trial in America. Wasn’t there a million-dollar lawyer that won a jury over with: _My logic isn’t worth a shit Even so, you must acquit._ ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9572 "2016-05-31T02:33:56Z")
I wish you people would stop making me defend Bricker… But he has repeatedly made clear in this thread that while he supports voter ID laws, he does not necessarily also support other laws or policies relating to things like restricting voting hours, despite the fact that they seem part and parcel of the same Chicanery to the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9573 "2016-05-31T03:37:01Z")
I won’t defend **Bricker**. If that were actually the sum and summary of his stance, he could simply have fucking said so, instead of giving us a 9,500 post thread full of his bullshit doubletalk. Instead, he’s been playing mumblety-peg with the issue, trying to throw his knife as close as possible to voter suppression, rather than being transparently against it. It’s like a racist pretending to be scientific and citing “bell curve” statistics and noting political corruption in Africa, always pretending it’s only about the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9574 "2016-05-31T06:18:32Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I wish you people would stop making me defend Bricker… Why? Do you feel you need to take a shower afterward? 😛 If it were just the one stupidity, I’d ignore **Brickbrains**. But, as just three examples, [ul][li] He pontificated that ex-Governor McDonnell’s (R) conviction for bribery was “unconstitutional” despite that an appeals court ruled (unanimously IIRC) that the conviction should stand.[/li][li] He idolizes Karl Rove (R), one of the most despicable hacks to infect American politics.[/li][li] He’s on record as finding Clinton’s (D) liaison with Monica (D) and white lie more “criminal” than the deliberate lies by Cheney-Bush (R) to start an insane war that cost trillions of dollars and more than a million lives.[/li][/ul] _Does anyone doubt for a single second that **Brickbrains** ’s stances on these matters would not reverse were the R’s and D’s interchanged?_ “Your side lost! Ha! Ha!” You seem like a nice, very intelligent guy, **Max**. Why do you defend such scum? ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9575 "2016-05-31T09:37:16Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [li] He’s on record as finding Clinton’s (D) liaison with Monica (D) and white lie more “criminal” than the deliberate lies by Cheney-Bush (R) to start an insane war that cost trillions of dollars and more than a million lives.[/li] Isn’t he correct on this one? The Clinton lie was during a deposition and constituted perjury which makes it criminal. The Cheney/Bush lie was not uttered under oath and is not perjury. Therefore the Clinton lie is factually more criminal even though the Cheney /Bush lie was more morally reprehensible and had much greater negative consequences. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9576 "2016-05-31T11:37:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Does anyone doubt for a single second that **Brickbrains** ’s stances on these matters would not reverse were the R’s and D’s interchanged? He isn’t a normal poster, one who would actually post what he actually thought, engaged in reasoned discussion, and resulted in somebody either knowing more or actually changing their mind. Instead, for him this is all about reliving his high school debate team years, when life was all about the \*form \*of an argument and not its content or its underlying principles, and he could be a shining star. That nostalgia for a simpler day without all these ethics and nuances and honesty getting involved includes his legal career, about which he’ll always be happy to brag. You must have seen how badly it frustrates him that this isn’t that kind of place, and that people here are expected to mean what they say, and that we observe a distinction between the letter and the spirit of law. Here, he sees himself as an advocate, not formally retained but pro bono, certainly, for two organizations to which he has always had great loyalty, and which he sees as constantly under harsh criticism here (justifiably, because they are and they deserve it) - the Republican Party and the Roman Catholic Church. He does not engage in the sort of factual and reasoned analysis that this board is about, on those topics, but instead limits himself to advocacy, using whatever argument he can drum up in order to tell himself he’s “winning his case”, or at least scoring points with the debate judges (who don’t exist here). It baffles and outrages him that we actually associate him with the positions he’s claiming, and judge his morality on the basis of what he actually says. But that’s how this board, and for that matter life, _works_. Debate Team is long over, and so is Moot Court, pard. Time to take responsibility. Yes, he may well vote for Clinton, even if he’s not willing to discuss that decision in depth, but that in no way means he won’t loyally take on the next “case” in which his party, or his church, is “charged” here, and trying to subvert the discussion into another tedious and ultimately meaningless sidetracks. That’s his game, the only one he knows, and he can never understand why he’s never acclaimed the winner. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9577 "2016-05-31T13:14:29Z")
[QUOTE=Merriam-Webster] Full Definition of crime 1 : an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law … 2 : a grave offense especially against morality … [/QUOTE] > [@Cyros](#): > > Isn’t he correct on this one? The Clinton lie was during a deposition and constituted perjury which makes it criminal. The Cheney/Bush lie was not uttered under oath and is not perjury. Therefore the Clinton lie is factually more criminal even though the Cheney /Bush lie was more morally reprehensible and had much greater negative consequences. Yes, you’re sort of right (Merriam-Webster’s definition above disagrees but we’ll stipulate that our **Esquire** isn’t capable of ordinary English.) This is because our **Esquire** is oh-so-preciously clever to phrase his despicable views in ways that might be _technically_ correct in some sense. The problem is he dances around from one perspective to another, according to whatever fits his Republiopathy. When he’s losing a debate on the facts or on the law, he himself throws the word “immoral” around bitterly against progressive Dopers. Yet he has never conceded that there was anything wrong with the Bush-Cheney crimes. I have more respect for ordinary right-wingers who are at least governed by a philosophy. All **Bricker** can do , just like Pavlov’s dog, is to thoughtlessly drool one way when he sees an “R” and the other way when he sees a “D.” Consider his admiration of Karl Rove: Do you seriously imagine he’d applaud that fiend if Rove worked for the Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9578 "2016-05-31T13:30:00Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Why? Do you feel you need to take a shower afterward? 😛 > > If it were just the one stupidity, I’d ignore **Brickbrains**. But, as just three examples, > > [ul][li] He pontificated that ex-Governor McDonnell’s (R) conviction for bribery was “unconstitutional” despite that an appeals court ruled (unanimously IIRC) that the conviction should stand.[/li][li] He idolizes Karl Rove (R), one of the most despicable hacks to infect American politics.[/li][li] He’s on record as finding Clinton’s (D) liaison with Monica (D) and white lie more “criminal” than the deliberate lies by Cheney-Bush (R) to start an insane war that cost trillions of dollars and more than a million lives.[/li][/ul] > > _Does anyone doubt for a single second that **Brickbrains** ’s stances on these matters would not reverse were the R’s and D’s interchanged?_ > > “Your side lost! Ha! Ha!” > > You seem like a nice, very intelligent guy, **Max**. Why do you defend such scum? For point #1, are you talking about [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19307318#post19307318)? If so, you’ll note that the case in question was not one involving the constitution, but of interpreting a statute. And when **Richard Parker** (see post #25) agrees with Bricker on a matter of the law, I think that’s a pretty good indication that they are right. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9579 "2016-05-31T15:19:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > For point #1, are you talking about [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19307318#post19307318)? If so, you’ll note that the case in question was not one involving the constitution, but of interpreting a statute. And when **Richard Parker** (see post #25) agrees with Bricker on a matter of the law, I think that’s a pretty good indication that they are right. The link in the link points to an _opinion_ that acquittal would depend on a constitutional interpretation. RUAL? I’m not either, so I think we can desist from 2nd-guessing those more expert. As for your claim that the opinion of Bricker Plus Parker outweighs that of a jury AND trial judge AND **a “unanimous panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit”** … Well, I won’t comment on Mr. Parker, but I find Bricker’s pretense, and yours, to be only laughable! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9580 "2016-05-31T20:20:25Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Isn’t he correct on this one? The Clinton lie was during a deposition and constituted perjury which makes it criminal. The Cheney/Bush lie was not uttered under oath and is not perjury. Therefore the Clinton lie is factually more criminal even though the Cheney /Bush lie was more morally reprehensible and had much greater negative consequences. Tricky. Suppose someone kills two people in an ambush using a knife, but is never convicted for any crime. (Yeah, I know, really wild hypothetical, but go with it…) Okay, the guy in question is “not a murderer.” But a murder did happen. The guy wasn’t convicted of a crime, but there was a crime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=478) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=480)